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Subject: MY version of: Star Trek Attack Wing 2.0 rss

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Jerry Hardman
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Ok, so like many of you guys I felt that the Fantasy Flight ruleset borrowed from (X-wing) didn't quite capture the feeling of capital ships vs. capital ships in the trek world. I do agree that ships in Star Trek do in fact dogfight so I think the X-wing ruleset does capture that, but not the mass of the ships, so here is my stab at how to make the rules "feel" more in line with how big the ships are while keeping that dogfight gameplay.

Note: I wanted to add rules that tweaked the current rules so that I wouldn't conflict with any upgrades or abilities or make any of them obsolete. So these rules are in addition to or change rules only slightly, but my overall goal was to not mess with the game too much so you can still play with everything. I also wanted to give a shout out to the creator of STAWmada as I borrowed some of his ideas and was the main influence in most of my "tweaks". Again, I wanted to change very little so these are intended to be added to the current rules, they either are additions or modifications to current rules.

Also, I want to point out that you don't have to use all these rules, you can cherry pick the ones you like the most, these are just the variants I use when modding STAW.


Addon Rules

Double hull value: All hulls across all ships (not squadrons) flat out get double hull points.
(This makes the game take a bit longer, but is the best way to make the ships feel like they have mass without going crazy. It's a lot harder to one-shot someone which was one of my biggest beefs with STAW, It can still happen, just not as likely. It'll also give you a bit more time to pull off some of your cool combos, it also throws squadrons out of balance with everything else, I haven't figured out a way to deal with that so any suggestions is welcome)

Cheaper Secondary Weapons All secondary weapon upgrades are 1/2 their printed value rounded up.
(I can't tell you how many times I wanted to take torpedos on all my ships because this is star trek (pretty much everything has torpedoes of some kind)but couldn't because they were SO EXPENSIVE. Well that fixes that and it fits nicely dealing with the double hull points rule.)

Double Range on Target Lock: You can target lock from range 1-6 (yes, two measuring sticks. The idea here is to give the player more options if they decide to zoom out of a moshpit. It also helps with countering the double hitpoints while staying true to the Star Trek fluff. Pretty much every episode I've seen ship combat the captain is always telling his weapons guy to lock on target before they fire, so this just gives players some wiggle room for that.)

Speed = Harder to hit Any ship that moves at speed 4 or higher automatically gets an "Evade Token".
(This one is pretty self explanitory, you move fast its harder to hit you)

Excess Power Token If a ship starts the Activation Phase without an APT "Auxillary Power Token" and that ship executes a green maneuver they automatically receive an "Excess Power Token". The Excess Power Token may be spent in one of three ways.
(I have two tables and I don't know which one I want to use more. Table one seems more powerful but that's ok because of the increase hull points. Table two seems to be less game breaking, but still rewards players for making "easy" maneuvers with their ships)
Table 1
- Add an additional attack die
- Add an additional defense die
- Repair one shield during the End Phase.

Table 2
- Reroll one attack die
- Reroll one defense die
- Repair one shield during the End Phase.
(The idea behind this was I noticed whenever ships made a red maneuver they were considered to use Auxillary power to compensate [hence the Auxiliary Power Token for red maneuvers, followed by needing a green maneuver to balance the power usage], but there was never a bonus to power whenever we made green maneuvers when the ship had no Auxiliary Power Tokens. So I wanted to reflect the added power a green maneuver would have outside of getting rid of APTs.)



Optional Additional Rules

Attacking outside of your Forward Firing Arc I have two versions of this.
-Version 1 All ships may attack an enemy ship at range 1-2 which is not in their forward firing arc instead of attacking normally. That attack is made at attack value 1. That attack may not be modified in any way.

-Version 2 All ships may attack an enemy ship at range 1-2 which is not in their forward firing arc instead of attacking normally. The attack value is 1/2 the ships Primary weapons value rounded down, but may not exceed an attack value of 2. That attack may not be modified in any way.
(It never made any sense that ships in star trek attack wing couldn't shoot 360 degrees. I get that WizKids is trying to make the game fit the X-Wing rules, but I feel like they should've been able to at least shoot something in all directions, even if its just a weak little jab).

FULL STOP Every ship adds to their movement dial a "Full Stop" maneuver. This is always considered a Red maneuver so an Auxilary Power Token will be given to a ship that performs this maneuver. In addition, if a ship who makes this maneuver is attacked, it may not roll any defense dice. A ship that conducts the "Full Stop" maneuver may immediately turn their ship 45 degrees port or starboard. Thay may attack as normal in the Combat Phase. In order to represent this on the movement dial twist the dial to show the space between two normal movement choices. Or if you really want to, take a marker and make a red dot between two normal movement options and set your dial on that dot.
(Anybody who's had a ship go off the board will appreciate this. There may be other advantages to this but I can't really see any past trying to keep from moving off the board)


EDIT: More additional Rules

Silent Hunter Any Non-Federation ship with the ability to cloak may start the game cloaked. This is to give cloaking ships a bit of an edge, its also there so your opponent can't target lock you on turn one (due to double target lock distance). I only advise using this rule if you plan on also using the "Double Range on Target Lock" rule. (Again this is mainly to buff cloak a bit and counter the increased range of double target lock, it's also thematic as all get-up but I'm pretty sure this isn't game-breaking)




Thank you for your time guys. Any and all feedback (good or bad) is always welcome. Enjoy.


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William McClelland
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Wow, this looks cool. Going to give it a try with my Attack Wing crew.
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Henry Grossen

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The full stop with a 45 degree turn, in addition to not flying off the map, would be really nice for a Federation build. I can't tell you how many times a ship has been JUST outside the firing arc or has much more maneuverability (come-abouts!) than the Feds. Less "getting chased."
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Leo Zappa
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While I don't know if I'd adopt your entire rule set, I really like the combination of double hull points and half price secondary weapons. I will definitely try that next time.
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William McClelland
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Just finished up a test run of your 2.0 STAW with my son and we thought it was great. I think it achieved the feel of capital ship combat very well. Thanks for sharing.
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Jerry Hardman
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desertfox2004 wrote:
While I don't know if I'd adopt your entire rule set, I really like the combination of double hull points and half price secondary weapons. I will definitely try that next time.


Go for it bud, this was just my stab at tweaking the rules. Take what works for you, add some of your own stuff, go crazy, the more ideas the better!!!
 
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Larry DeStefano
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Generally good ideas all round I say. Ive posted a set of variant ideas on FB STAW page check them out.kinda the same philosophy. My rules are not the same but was shooting for the same effect, and to align with star fleet battles.
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Jerry Hardman
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I've Added the "Silent Hunter" rule, I was having issues with really fast ships being able to target lock my cloakers on turn one.
 
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Russ Fleming
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Looks good. I hope to try it out with my son.
 
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Keith Anderson
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Will definitely be trying these next time we play.
 
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Janx Jelantru
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Neat ideas. The zooming around never struck me as Star Trek. Most TV battles were sitting in place trading shots.

It's been awhile since I've played and I never got as deep into the rules and combinations, but here's some gut feelings on some of these vs. TV


Silent Hunter:
Roms and Klingons really do tend to appear from cloak, not fly up normally and then vanish. So this makes a lot of thematic sense. A rom might send up a small ship, but have hidden buddies.

Full Stop:
Again, capital ships don't zoom and swoop that much on TV (Defiant in general and wolf359 probably had the most dogfighting). So I like this.

I'd also propose that a ship that is stopped can continue being stopped for free (no rotate) (using the same method on the dial). It matches what we see on TV for scanning, orbiting, most fights. There might be game balance side effects (borg would probably love to sit in place).

Excess Power:
I'm not sure which is better, a re-roll or an additional die. My gut tells me the rule should be whichever is less impactful (less game imbalance risk).

I'm wary of changing the hull points or build costs because it invalidates what's on the card. But using EP to extend ship life (what if they could only be used to defend the ship because that energy is feeding the shields presumably. it both makes sense and sort of solves for what increasing hull points wanted to do.

I may have to give your changes a try next time I get to play.

 
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Russ Fleming
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I played with a friend last night (his first game) and the rules really helped: especially doubling the hull points.

Question: do you "clean up/remove" the excess power token (from a green maneuver) during the end phase or do you let it stay on the table similar to a target lock or an auxiliary power token?

We decided to let it stay on the table as it was equal but opposite to an auxiliary power token.
 
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What if instead of cutting the cost of torpedoes, you caused any hits with torpedoes on the hull to count double. It is more thematic since torpedoes are seen as tearing through the hull of the ship. It would be normal damage on shields. It would also mean you would wait to fire the torpedoes until the shields are down. It makes torpedoes something different than primary weapons that require a target lock. Also I don't think it would invalidate any upgrade cards or costs. This would really only work with the double hull rule otherwise torpedoes would likely be overpowered.
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D. Scipio
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This is my try to enhance the Star Trek ship battle experience with attack wing models:

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/163200-custom...
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Jerry Hardman
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Kahlessthedude wrote:
What if instead of cutting the cost of torpedoes, you caused any hits with torpedoes on the hull to count double. It is more thematic since torpedoes are seen as tearing through the hull of the ship. It would be normal damage on shields. It would also mean you would wait to fire the torpedoes until the shields are down. It makes torpedoes something different than primary weapons that require a target lock. Also I don't think it would invalidate any upgrade cards or costs. This would really only work with the double hull rule otherwise torpedoes would likely be overpowered.


I seriously considered this, I totally agree with you, it captures the feel of what torpedos are. I'm just worried it might be a bit too game breaking (it would make certain Fed torpedo boat builds a bit OP. I should try play testing it.
 
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Jerry Hardman
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TallDwarf wrote:
I played with a friend last night (his first game) and the rules really helped: especially doubling the hull points.

Question: do you "clean up/remove" the excess power token (from a green maneuver) during the end phase or do you let it stay on the table similar to a target lock or an auxiliary power token?

We decided to let it stay on the table as it was equal but opposite to an auxiliary power token.


That's a good question, I don't know. I think I agree with your line of thinking, make sense the excess of energy is there until its used, just like how the APT is there until the energy it put back.
 
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John Wray
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isaiah5112 wrote:
Just finished up a test run of your 2.0 STAW with my son and we thought it was great. I think it achieved the feel of capital ship combat very well. Thanks for sharing.


Good to hear! I am thinking about trying this out as well. Plus we can finally use our growing shield tokens collection.
 
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Jeff Sonas
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A couple of thoughts here, following down the path of getting to keep excess power tokens for a future round. In the same way that you can have an aux token sitting around and then you get rid of it by doing a green maneuver, maybe you can have an excess power token sitting around and then you can spend it when doing a red maneuver without getting an aux? Or if there is a card effect that would give you an aux, and you have an excess power token already, they can cancel each other out and both tokens go away.

It doesn't quite seem right that you could let them build up over time by doing green maneuvers and then get +3 on your attack, so maybe you can only spend one per round to get one of those bonuses?
 
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Jerry Hardman
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jsonas wrote:
A couple of thoughts here, following down the path of getting to keep excess power tokens for a future round. In the same way that you can have an aux token sitting around and then you get rid of it by doing a green maneuver, maybe you can have an excess power token sitting around and then you can spend it when doing a red maneuver without getting an aux? Or if there is a card effect that would give you an aux, and you have an excess power token already, they can cancel each other out and both tokens go away.

It doesn't quite seem right that you could let them build up over time by doing green maneuvers and then get +3 on your attack, so maybe you can only spend one per round to get one of those bonuses?


That's a really good point. I would say you can never have more than one excess power token at a time. Reason being you can only save up enough excess power.

In my experience, I've never really had an opportunity to save up excess power tokens as I'm using them as soon as I get them. But I think a bit more playtesting would due, I'm even open to the idea of finding a sweet spot to allow larger ships store up more than one excess power token. Say take the printed hull value, cut in half and round down. That's how many you can have at a time.
 
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