Recommend
1 
 Thumb up
 Hide
26 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

BoardGameGeek» Forums » Gaming Related » Computer Based Board Gaming

Subject: Story drive board game uses an app for replay-ability. Acceptable? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Vincent Vergonjeanne
msg tools
designer
publisher
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Chronicles of Crime is a cooperative game of criminal investigation that mixes board game and VR. But most importantly, it lets you replay new scenarios with the same cards because the text comes from an app.

So it's Time Stories but replayable. How do you feel about this? Would the capacity to replay allow for the use of an app in your opinion? Let me know!



 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Warren Fitzpatrick
United States
Ohio
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I only have one app-driven game, and it's completely playable w/o the app. I wouldn't avoid a game like this, but I'd probably wait a little while to make sure the app would continue to be available.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Benj Davis
Australia
Summer Hill
NSW
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I think I'd be okay with it.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
skip salajan
Romania
bucuresti
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
sure
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Juan Carlos Goyes
Colombia
Bogota
Cundinamarca
flag msg tools
badge
It’s true hard work never killed anyone, but I figure, why take the chance? - Ronald Reagan
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Great!! No problem for me!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael Debije
Netherlands
Eindhoven
The Netherlands
flag msg tools
If it needs an app I will not buy it.
9 
 Thumb up
0.02
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Vincent Vergonjeanne
msg tools
designer
publisher
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thanks for all your feedback! It's encourageing!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Robbert Vervuurt
Denmark
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The problem with a game only working with an app, is that the game will one day will be unplayable.

So, unless you commit yourself to the fact that your app has to be updated endlessly (which might be impossible/too work intense), it will be stupid to make the game only playable with an app. At least create some kind of fallback, like a website where you type in a card number, and it returns the text. A website is a lot more maintainable than an app!

You could of course just choose to make a very mobile friendly/app-like website, and just let people add a bookmark to their homescreen. It's a lot easier for you as a dev (if it's only text anyway), and a LOT more future-proof!

You could also choose to just release "booster decks", where you sell new scenario-cards. Not really like TIME Stories, but smaller decks that make a scenario replayable.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
"What do you mean, I can't pay in Meeples?"
Canada
flag msg tools
mb
I would not buy a game that's app-dependent because I want to be able to play my games for the rest of my life should I so choose. Barring disaster that is going to be longer than an app is likely to be maintained / the device it was written for would last.

One of the reasons I like board games is that they get me away from the computer screen. A required app defeats that purpose.
7 
 Thumb up
0.02
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pelle Nilsson
Sweden
Linköping
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I might buy if I could be convinced that it is likely that the game will be playable for as long as the physical game remains (and within my lifetime) although it is a bit sad to know that unlike 200+ years old games you can still easily play today an app game will probably be very difficult to play only a few decades from now at most. Available source code, working using some more universal system like being a big downloadable HTML+JS file for instance makes it more likely that the game can be archived and preserved, so that might convince me to still buy it. Many others seem to not care though so the idea might still work commercially.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ren
Italy
Pavia
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I've played two games with apps so far -- Mansions of Madness: Second Edition and Alchemists. Both are playable without app, but the app makes things easier and removes the need for another person to play as a game master. I would prefer something similar, i.e. some physical support that can replace the app for the tecnophobes, or in case of a zombie apocalypse where we don't have power or internet access, or whatever. But an app wouldn't necessarily turn me off a purchase. It would depend on whether I trust the publisher to support the game/app for a reasonably long time (10 years?) and whether the app is small and doesn't hog the phone, do we only need 1 phone or does everyone need to download the app, etc.

On the other hand... the VR would (will) stop me from getting the game. I wear glasses and can't use any kind of VR visor, so anything using that is automatically out.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pelle Nilsson
Sweden
Linköping
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Ren3 wrote:
trust the publisher to support the game/app for a reasonably long time (10 years?)


There is no way to trust a developer to be able to support an app even next month. Eventually they will need to make updates to keep it running on a new generations of phones. They also, depending on appstore policies, might have to be around to just re-register or pay fees to keep the app still available. So many things that can go wrong.

Some kind of access to the source code, or at least good documentation of the algorithms and data is the only way to trust the developer. (Or a documented way how to play it using only paper+cardboard even if it is an awkward way. At least that way will indirectly also document how the app has to work so some third-party can re-implement it if needed.)
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ren
Italy
Pavia
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
pelni wrote:
Ren3 wrote:
trust the publisher to support the game/app for a reasonably long time (10 years?)


There is no way to trust a developer to be able to support an app even next month.


I said trust, not iron-clad guarantee.
Big publisher with lots of titles in its catalogue who published an app-driven game last year and is still pushing out new versions of the app = I would trust them.
Newcomer that put out an app-driven game as its first release last week = nope.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pelle Nilsson
Sweden
Linköping
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Ren3 wrote:
pelni wrote:
Ren3 wrote:
trust the publisher to support the game/app for a reasonably long time (10 years?)


There is no way to trust a developer to be able to support an app even next month.


I said trust, not iron-clad guarantee.
Big publisher with lots of titles in its catalogue who published an app-driven game last year and is still pushing out new versions of the app = I would trust them.
Newcomer that put out an app-driven game as its first release last week = nope.


Looking at drm-protected digital software/content and how services even from big companies like Microsoft and Adobe have been shut down and left consumers with things they bought and can never use again, I think it is a mistake to trust anyone, no matter how good their intentions are. Even if no expensive servers must be run, apps still need to be maintained (ie programmers got to be paid, source code kept safe). How big are their incentives to keep doing that 5 years after launch, when the game has been out of print for 3 years already and they have no plans to print it again?

If boardgames that rely on apps becomes popular we can soon start a geeklist of games that can no longer be played (or no longer played unless you also maintain an old phone/tablet), and it will include games from big and small publishers and trusted publishers that suddenly could not handle the costs involved for some particular game.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kevin W
Germany
Wiesbaden
Hessen
flag msg tools
badge
Sprechen Sie Talk?
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
If the game is good enough with an app who cares if I can play it in 20 years. No a single person that mentions here "oh I need to be able to play it for my entire life" actually means that. If your game costs 50€ and I get to play it 10 times in the space of a year or two then excellent, there is no way I am going to be wanting to play it in 20 years.

The same people who complain about app integration are more then more than happy to support and buy legacy games that you can play once.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Vincent Vergonjeanne
msg tools
designer
publisher
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thanks for the conversation everyone.
Here are a couple pointers to some of your questions:

- VR is not mandatory. You can play the game without the glasses by simply scrolling with your finger to a panoramic on your phone. This means you can also stream your phone on a TV for everyone to have a look at it if you wish to

- About the app vs no app. Look at it this way: When you buy Time Stories you have a one time use. You can either resell the game, but most likely it will remain in your collection as an emotionally charged item.
I would agree that a non-story-driven game, like a worker placement, etc, would suffer from this. When you are story driven, we really win a huge plus by having all text on an app -> the games become replayable.

- Before getting into board game, my partner and I have been in the mobile game business for 10 years already. We know what we are doing and, obviously, will do everything to make sure the app has a lasting presence.
However, we can certainly think of some sort of physical index stored on a website to enable playing it without a device. It kinda bit the purpose, but it is feasable.
1 
 Thumb up
1.00
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pelle Nilsson
Sweden
Linköping
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
wi1ky wrote:
If the game is good enough with an app who cares if I can play it in 20 years. No a single person that mentions here "oh I need to be able to play it for my entire life" actually means that. If your game costs 50€ and I get to play it 10 times in the space of a year or two then excellent, there is no way I am going to be wanting to play it in 20 years.


If you said 40 or 50 years we could discuss that, but I have games bought over 15 years ago that are still in my "looks cool, need to play that soon" pile. And games older than that that I have played once or twice and want to play again.

Story-games? I have played the first two missions in Battle Hymn that I bought about 20 years ago. About 8 or so missions to go. Good thing that it does not depend on software to play. Mice and Mystics is already five years old and at the rate I get through the chapters the base game will last easily until that game is 20 years old.

20 years is nothing for a board game. I have been on bgg since 2001 and if we had had this discussion back then I could now talk about all the games still in my collection since then and look at what apps are still around 17 years later.

Not to mention when you want to explore really old games. Got to think about future game historians of course!

If the developers just include a zip with the raw data so that in the case of the app going offline some geek can create a new app for it I will not complain. It does not have to be officially supported or convenient, just some kind of way out. I can think of reasons why it is even better to have a way to play without the app, but that is a bonus compared to just making sure the game has not a very limited shelf-life.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joe Martineau
United States
Plano
Texas
flag msg tools
Maybe I'll just stay home and play KDM.
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I like video games. I like board games.


I hate these hybrid games and I'd never buy them. Work within the constraints of the tabletop medium and if your design doesn't allow it, then just make a video game.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andy Leber
Canada
Orillia
ON
flag msg tools
Yin
badge
Yang
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
pelni wrote:
wi1ky wrote:
If the game is good enough with an app who cares if I can play it in 20 years. No a single person that mentions here "oh I need to be able to play it for my entire life" actually means that. If your game costs 50€ and I get to play it 10 times in the space of a year or two then excellent, there is no way I am going to be wanting to play it in 20 years.


If you said 40 or 50 years we could discuss that, but I have games bought over 15 years ago that are still in my "looks cool, need to play that soon" pile. And games older than that that I have played once or twice and want to play again.

Story-games? I have played the first two missions in Battle Hymn that I bought about 20 years ago. About 8 or so missions to go. Good thing that it does not depend on software to play. Mice and Mystics is already five years old and at the rate I get through the chapters the base game will last easily until that game is 20 years old.

20 years is nothing for a board game. I have been on bgg since 2001 and if we had had this discussion back then I could now talk about all the games still in my collection since then and look at what apps are still around 17 years later.

Not to mention when you want to explore really old games. Got to think about future game historians of course!

If the developers just include a zip with the raw data so that in the case of the app going offline some geek can create a new app for it I will not complain. It does not have to be officially supported or convenient, just some kind of way out. I can think of reasons why it is even better to have a way to play without the app, but that is a bonus compared to just making sure the game has not a very limited shelf-life.


Games can last an extraordinarily long time, and that's a huge plus. Doesn't mean they need to.

I judge most forms of entertainment with a sort of loose $/hr of entertainment. It's not dissimilar to the Legacy games argument. If I can have a year, or 5 years, or 10 years of a game, that's fantastic.

There are also ways to back up apps for people who are super hardcore, and afraid of it being removed from the app stores.

Alchemists might be my absolute favorite game. I can't imagine my gaming life without it. And although I'd be super sad (understatement of the year) if it disappeared tomorrow, I wouldn't regret buying it for a second.

*Technically Alchemists is playable without the app, but in my mind, the app really is essential.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Werner Bär
Germany
Karlsruhe
Baden
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
wi1ky wrote:
If the game is good enough with an app who cares if I can play it in 20 years.
[...] there is no way I am going to be wanting to play it in 20 years.

Seriously?
I just counted. I played 24 different games last year that are 20 years or older. I still like to play another ~50 games that old, but i didn't get them on the table last year.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John
United Kingdom
Southampton
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
wi1ky wrote:
If the game is good enough with an app who cares if I can play it in 20 years. No a single person that mentions here "oh I need to be able to play it for my entire life" actually means that. If your game costs 50€ and I get to play it 10 times in the space of a year or two then excellent, there is no way I am going to be wanting to play it in 20 years.


You might not care whether you can play it in 20 years but some people clearly do. I doubt there are many people would would refuse to buy a game unless they were certain they would still be playing it in 20 years but not wanting to buy a game that you are fairly sure you wouldn't be able to play in 20 years is a reasonable position to take (even if you might not agree with it).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Vincent Vergonjeanne
msg tools
designer
publisher
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
We know the choices we have made for this game are not for everyone. And that's ok.

We stand by the innovation and immertion the game brings.
The game was built with a true desire to be able to replay multiple story and cases without the need to buy extra materials.
This comes with its pros and cons.

Thanks everyone for the conversation!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Vincent Vergonjeanne
msg tools
designer
publisher
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I actually wrote my first blog entry around this game.

https://boardgamegeek.com/blogpost/72511/chronicles-crime-ep...
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
"What do you mean, I can't pay in Meeples?"
Canada
flag msg tools
mb
wi1ky wrote:
If the game is good enough with an app who cares if I can play it in 20 years. No a single person that mentions here "oh I need to be able to play it for my entire life" actually means that.


I still read books I bought as a child.
I still play the first video games I received as a young teenager.
I fully intend to play games I have bought as an adult for the rest of my lifetime.

Last time I checked, I was indeed a person. So I'm afraid you're wrong.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jonathan Challis
United Kingdom
Hungerford
West Berkshire
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I wouldn't buy a game with an app (even one I really like the look of, and there is one), but then I wouldn't buy this kind of game without one either, so I'm clearly not your target market.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.