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Subject: This game is killing my soul rss

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Matt Simmons
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...ok not really, but its starting to frustrate the crap out of me. I have played Wastes of the Ancient Empire countless times and I can't beat it. I have tried 4p, 3p, and 2p. Every time I get to Stage 3, I end up with one player having AT LEAST three 2x2 encounters (usually 4), plus 1-2 L2 monsters. Unless all players are sitting on a bunch of assists, I can't make it past 1 round in Stage 3. I have 2 characters with 28xp (Fighter, Warlock), a 13xp Cleric, and a 11xp Bard.

What the hell am I doing wrong? Or do you just have to grind away until you get up to higher levels?
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Parker Sutton
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Need to make sure you get a Flaming Oil or two. Magic Missle helps but isn’t as good for the 3rd scene.
 
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Kevin
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I’ve had the game since Christmas and am right there with you. We are going to try again today as a 3p (4p was so hard I lost a gamer for good) 2nd-level adjustment adventure because our party level is now 2. It’s really really hard, and I’ve removed all but the most tolerable 11 DF cards and still lose, every time. My Ranger even had Spike Growth in play scene 1 and we still lost. U r not alone!
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Vlad
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We won it by taking Market cycling feats and making sure that we get as many Flaming Oils as possible. It still took a while to win due to market/monster randomness.

That mission is highly luck based (especially with 2). If you are not swimming in oil by stage 3 you have about zero chance to win.
 
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Matt Simmons
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Vladk wrote:
We won it by taking Market cycling feats and making sure that we get as many Flaming Oils as possible. It still took a while to win due to market/monster randomness.

That mission is highly luck based (especially with 2). If you are not swimming in oil by stage 3 you have about zero chance to win.


Yeah, I don't think its a good design. 1st adventure of a core game shouldn't crush your face 90% of the time. I am going to try a different party make up from a different thread since I have the Hero's pack.
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RagnaarHaas wrote:
Vladk wrote:
We won it by taking Market cycling feats and making sure that we get as many Flaming Oils as possible. It still took a while to win due to market/monster randomness.

That mission is highly luck based (especially with 2). If you are not swimming in oil by stage 3 you have about zero chance to win.


Yeah, I don't think its a good design. 1st adventure of a core game shouldn't crush your face 90% of the time. I am going to try a different party make up from a different thread since I have the Hero's pack.


The harder the better, BRING IT ON! This is precisely why I loved Crossfire so much, you lose so much. That said, if it's anything like Crossfire you can learn a little more about the strategy nuance each time. For example, little things like character order and how you set up for your next discard pile shuffle can be huge.

That said, I just got the game 2 days ago and have played through a 6-player dungeon crawl and am now into scene two of Ancient Empire, I'll let you know how I do.

Quick Update: I just completed scene 3, got 19(!) tokens at the start of scene 3 and yet it was a win. Felt relatively tight, with one character exhausted and 4 others down to 1 hp. I would strongly encourage anyone who likes meaty games to try this one solo, 6-handed.
 
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B C Z
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This weekend we had a five player team.

We started with a Dungeon crawl, and were successful.
We'd agreed to hand out BG stickers after the first completion, win or lose, so everyone then chose a BG or a 5xp Feature.
Then we completed Wastes on the first try, which included an event I'd never experienced before: We had to shuffle the Market deck. One of the Flaming Oils had been cycled out by a very mean encounter, but the other two had been purchased and were being put to good effect.
We then lost one of our members, but another player stepped in, taking a fresh character. We did a level II Dungeon Crawl to success.
Bodyguards was a sprint back to Daggerford. We had decided to ignore the plot twist (and just let it leave), but then circumstances forced us to change our minds and be more aggressive during round 6. In one turn we managed to dispatch with the plot twist and stumble into Daggerford, a bit singed around the edges, but all of us fully conscious.

Our only failure of the day was our foray into the Unholy Night. We probably would've tried a second time but the event was closing up and we had to go.

 
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Walt MacEachern
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I played in Byron’s game yesterday. I’d previously won the Dungeon Crawl solo and 2 player 3 out of 7 times, but failed The Wastes 3 times in a row with teams of 4, experiencing the same raging frustration as the OP.

Before yesterday the players I’d played with were experienced and skilled gamers, but we all relied on the patterns learned in other deck builders: thin the deck and wait for strong cards, concentrate on buying cards that are boosted by your color. These are good enough for the Dungeon Crawl but playing at higher levels requires a level of teamwork and deck management I haven’t experienced in other games. There’s very little opportunity to thin the deck, and you can’t wait for the cards you want. You have to compromise and give up your “grand plan” all the time.

I was very fortunate to learn a lot from my teammates yesterday. Success in the game is very dependent on card draw luck and guessing what may fall in the market, encounter and Dragonfire decks. The whole team has to do everything it can to influence these factors and discuss how they plan to do it. It’s amazing how much can be done being creative in combining team efforts, and changes to market flow (caravan) deck cycling (misty step) can help a lot. Most of all, you’ve got to grind, not give up, and rely on your buddies.

Even with experienced players communicating constantly, you will lose. A lot. You will get tired or impatient, one weak or distracted team member can make a fatal mistake, or your luck will simply turn rotten.

I lost the wastes last week when scene 3 opened with 2 level 2 location encounters, putting our team of 4 in 3 locations and covered in 2x2 counters. It was hopeless. It happens, and you go down fighting, collect your experience, and lick your wounds. It’s also what makes winning so much fun.

The game is not for everyone. It kind of depends on what you find to be fun. We played nonstop for 12 hours yesterday, and would have kept going cause we were having such a blast. And I’ve been playing my moves in our loss over and over in my head ever since. That means it’s a good game for me.
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B C Z
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Also a note...

I'm not sure how this classifies as a Strategy article, versus General.
 
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Luke Heineman
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Apparently this quest is errata'd and you don't spawn adventure tokens for a character that already has encounter tokens. Also, if a character is facing 3+ tokens they get to draw a card.

We've played 4 times and lost with 4 characters each time. I agree this is extremely punishing. Now we get the additional difficulty of beginning at Dragonfire level 0 because we've lost so much we've leveled up. GREAT.

Not sure what we think of this game at the moment.
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Kevin
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Honestly, it's one of those games that has to be customized to your gaming group, just like D&D, or you will lose players due to frustration. I've already lost 2 players due to its randomness and extreme difficulty. Hardcore fantasy D&D players that are in for the long haul (like me) are going to absolutely love this game! But casual players that might sit down to play a card game once a week are just not ok with taking multiple butt kickings and going home in defeat. This is tailored for a very specific fan base, but I love it and hope enough do to keep it going for a very long time!
 
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B C Z
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lukeheineman99 wrote:
Apparently this quest is errata'd and you don't spawn adventure tokens for a character that already has encounter tokens. Also, if a character is facing 3+ tokens they get to draw a card.

We've played 4 times and lost with 4 characters each time. I agree this is extremely punishing. Now we get the additional difficulty of beginning at Dragonfire level 0 because we've lost so much we've leveled up. GREAT.

Not sure what we think of this game at the moment.


What Feature(s) did you take at 5xp?

What Feature(s) are you taking at 10xp?
 
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Luke Heineman
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byronczimmer wrote:
lukeheineman99 wrote:
Apparently this quest is errata'd and you don't spawn adventure tokens for a character that already has encounter tokens. Also, if a character is facing 3+ tokens they get to draw a card.

We've played 4 times and lost with 4 characters each time. I agree this is extremely punishing. Now we get the additional difficulty of beginning at Dragonfire level 0 because we've lost so much we've leveled up. GREAT.

Not sure what we think of this game at the moment.


What Feature(s) did you take at 5xp?

What Feature(s) are you taking at 10xp?


The only one I remember taking was one that cycles the market. We've been buying the flaming oil and the magic missiles, etc. According to the forums we've been playing correctly and have been using the correct strategies. However, the errata would have helped. I think we SHOULD be able to manage to beat it now, but getting your teeth kicked in, leveling up, and finding out the difficulty increases is insult to injury. We'll try it a couple more times but may have to adjust the dragonfire level. I don't want my niece to lose interest.
 
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B C Z
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In our 5p game, 3 of us took the Caravan (Market cycle) Feature. We only used 2 of them, so that was probably over-prepared.

At 10xp, consider one person taking the +1 Market Slot Feature (Merchants Guild?). It can help give some options and cycle cards a bit faster when paired w/ the Caravan.

It sounds like you have all your ducks in a row.
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Walt MacEachern
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"Apparently this quest is errata'd and you don't spawn adventure tokens for a character that already has encounter tokens. Also, if a character is facing 3+ tokens they get to draw a card."

That's close, but not quite right. The errata clarified that encounter generated tokens, which are defined as separate encounters in the rules, do not generate additional tokens. The card encounter still generates adventure tokens, so for each card in front of you you will get 1 or 3 counters depending on color. These counters are separate and do not associate with a card.

Also, no matter how many tokens, you only get 1 card draw, which sucks.
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Luke Heineman
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waltermac wrote:
"Apparently this quest is errata'd and you don't spawn adventure tokens for a character that already has encounter tokens. Also, if a character is facing 3+ tokens they get to draw a card."

That's close, but not quite right. The errata clarified that encounter generated tokens, which are defined as separate encounters in the rules, do not generate additional tokens. The card encounter still generates adventure tokens, so for each card in front of you you will get 1 or 3 counters depending on color. These counters are separate and do not associate with a card.

Also, no matter how many tokens, you only get 1 card draw, which sucks.


Ok, thanks for that clarification. I was regurgitating what someone else had written in another (quite lengthy) thread, and I only printed off the official FAQ/Errata this morning. Haven't had a chance to go over it yet.
 
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SOME MUSTARD
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so.... whats your party look like and what are you buying?

me and my friends (4-6 players) play and win almost every game and are at 230xp.. we recently went an alternate route and just restarted from 0xp. weve currently won 4 of the 4 dungeon crawls since restarting.

its actually odd because we were losing like crazy when we first started. i think its just out of game experience dealing with the encounters and knowing what to buy mixed with luck.
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