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Subject: Red\Blue\Orange card during siege rss

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Kevin Erskine
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Last question and I think I got this.

So I've hit the siege situation already on another track.

And I draw, say the Despair card.

So I still do the top part, correct?, which says

Despair: Raise the despair track if applicable. In this case, I read what's on the objective board which says: Increase the despair conquest track by 1, and each player must discard 1 Hope or resolve a muster.

So I raise it by 1, which hits a Conquest step on the despair track.

Do I do the conquest or continue with the Despair card next?

Either way, I eventually move to the Siege section. That has me discard 2 more Hope then raise despair track by 1 for each darkness in the fate pool. If I had to muster and rolled some darkness then I get hit again for those.

Then I move down to the Darkness Section which is valid because of the darkness I rolled in the muster. And I lose another hope (which I probably won't have by now).

Then if I was supposed to do the corruption track conquest results last I then discard 1 hope per player again?

I know that all probably makes no sense and probably all I really need to know is if you do the Despair and Siege sections on each card you draw. (as well as Darkness) or just the Siege.

And secondly if you do any conquest steps you hit on the track at the end, or as soon as you hit them?

Loving this game btw
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Tim Chase
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Here is my interpretation of the steps to resolve the Despair action, once the siege is already in progress:

1) As per objective board, increase despair track by 1
2) As per objective board, each hero must discard 1 Hope or Muster
3) As per objective board, Spawn (each hero must Muster)
4) As per Siege on Despair card, each player must discard 2 Hope or Muster
5) As per Siege on Despair card, if any hero did not discard Hope in step 4, then increase Despair track per darkness FD
6) As per Darkness on Despair card, if there are any darkness FD, resolve the discard or move minion per hero, then assault farrenroc
7) Resolve the Despair conquest ability on the monster board per conquest space entered/passed from steps 1 and 5
8) Resolve the Despair siege ability on the monster board, if the marker was already on the siege space before resolving step 1

I was playing last night, when I hit this same scenario. It seems like a whole lot of Mustering for 1 enemy action. I actually stopped playing at this point because it had gotten late, and I'd been playing for a long time.

I've really enjoyed learning the game so far. I'm a little worried that it'll get a bit too taxing to resolve enemy actions during the siege, but I'm hoping that it'll get smoother/easier after I get used to it (because I'm really happy with everything else so far)... or maybe I've misunderstood the rules, and it's simpler than I'm making it.
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Kevin Erskine
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Thanks Tim. I played it again and I came to the same conclusion you did this time.

What I was doing wrong was doing the Despair action on the action card and I was doing the despair action on the objective board.

Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts, especially going through it step by step.
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Brian Jordano

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I was really enjoying the game up to the Siege was in effect. After that, it all went downhill rather fast as the game just became too burdensome with ridiculous Siege penalties one after another, setting off quite a lengthy amount of steps and frustration. I'm a big fan Myth and their other games, but like Mercs Recon and Emergence Event, I'm getting the feeling this wasn't fleshed out very well for the end game. Up to the Siege, my feeling was this is an amazing game. I feel about discouraged at this point. I'll try it again and see how things go.
 
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Kevin Erskine
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Gunny_J wrote:
I was really enjoying the game up to the Siege was in effect. After that, it all went downhill rather fast as the game just became too burdensome with ridiculous Siege penalties one after another, setting off quite a lengthy amount of steps and frustration. I'm a big fan Myth and their other games, but like Mercs Recon and Emergence Event, I'm getting the feeling this wasn't fleshed out very well for the end game. Up to the Siege, my feeling was this is an amazing game. I feel about discouraged at this point. I'll try it again and see how things go.


In a twisted sort of way, I like that. I think a boss killing victory is supposed to be really tough. I want to try and win by not facing a siege. But if you know a siege is coming, you can prepare a bit for it by stocking up on the gems.
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Paul Aceto
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Kevin, wrt your last question, look at p.13 of the rules. It says that if a Conquest ability is reached due to an enemy action card, “resolve that card completely first.”

WRT to the other issue, I suspect a rule was left out that would have stated something like, “If an enemy action card is drawn and the corresponding space on the Conquest tracker is empty (card was removed because all the objectives are completed or the Siege has begun), ignore the top paragraph on the card and instead follow the corresponding instructions on the Conquest tracker.”

I rewatched the video play through and it seems that’s how what they did in the situation (no double muster/spawn, one for card, one for tracker). That is certainly the way I intend to play it.

 
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Tim Chase
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Kevin, keep in mind that revealing the final objective also triggers the siege.

Paul, I hope you're right, and I may play it that way too. However, the rules on the left side of he objective board seem to suggest otherwise. I don't have it in front of me, but it essentially states that if the objective card is gone, resolve the text on the objective board before spawning.
 
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Paul Aceto
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Crap, Tim, you're right. Looks like you do get a double whammy.

A good reason to keep fortifying to make sure you have plenty of resources to burn.
 
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Wesley Hayward
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My wife and I had this trouble last night playing for the first time, the siege started and the next colored card steamrolled an entire resource stockpile, and put salt in that wound with many extra musters.

I guess I always just read the card, and always resolved completely from top to bottom.

I was trusting the card to tell me everything we needed to know so I didn't reference the objective sheet. I feel like minute rules are scattered all over the place, and the rules could greatly benefit from various examples and pictures like they did with Myth 2.0...

I'll probably take another sweep through the rulebook, but boy was the end game a doozy. Ended up beating Orcneas though, we lucked out with the right allies and equipment to do quite a bit of damage (just needed 6 for a two player game), and had good attack rolls. Probably won't happen again!
 
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Joel Carr
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I read through the rulebook, and have yet to set up a game... but my impression from the rule book was that is seemed a decent rulebook (in comparison), more concise... however, I did feel they needed examples. I am happily awaiting a video playthrough, but will muddle through on my own here as soon as I get a chance
 
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Wesley Hayward
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B Wumpus wrote:
I read through the rulebook, and have yet to set up a game... but my impression from the rule book was that is seemed a decent rulebook (in comparison), more concise... however, I did feel they needed examples. I am happily awaiting a video playthrough, but will muddle through on my own here as soon as I get a chance


I was of the same mindset, until I needed to find spawning rules in the rulebook. Under spawning, it literally says to spawn the required number of minions....OK. Eventually I found them in the enemy action rule sets in the red, blue, and orange colored banners (don't know the page number offhand), I believe it is also on the objective sheet. For the life of me, I knew those rules were in there but I just couldn't remember.

I still believe the rules are straight forward, just those moments where you frantically search for that one sentence are the real PITA. I also don't think there are tables for the FD results (correct me if I'm wrong), so certain cards that say "guile result" might confuse anyone without previous Myth experience, especially when most cards just put the die result picture right in there.
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Joel Carr
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Table and fate pool description is on page 9. I concur that most rules are there, but finding them might be troublesome, luckily it is a short rulebook.
 
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Brian Jordano

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After playing the game several times now and watching the gameplay video from Megacon games, I think that once the siege has started and the objective cards are discarded, you simply following the objective board for the top paragraph of the Enemy Action Card (Corruption, Devastation, Despair).

Then, you resolve the Siege action step on the card and then the Darkness step (if applicable).

You will only conduct the Siege action one time (if it reaches the siege spot), no matter how many times the conquest track is raised due to the card text and objective board effects.

This is the way I'm playing it from now on. Anything else is simply too chaotic for enjoyment. I believe this is what the designers intended.
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Kevin Erskine
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Gunny_J wrote:
After playing the game several times now and watching the gameplay video from Megacon games, I think that once the siege has started and the objective cards are discarded, you simply following the objective board for the top paragraph of the Enemy Action Card (Corruption, Devastation, Despair).

Then, you resolve the Siege action step on the card and then the Darkness step (if applicable).

You will only conduct the Siege action one time (if it reaches the siege spot), no matter how many times the conquest track is raised due to the card text and objective board effects.

This is the way I'm playing it from now on. Anything else is simply too chaotic for enjoyment. I believe this is what the designers intended.


That's what I'm doing as well. I think that's the consensus.
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Paul Aceto
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I'm coming to that view as well. I wondered if this would make it too easy. But then I realized that at the end of the game, you will start to run out of resources, both because you're burning them for objectives and to avoid musters and also because the monsters will be destroying your structures. Plus, you will likely have other priorities than fortifying with the boss on the board. So you can't keep avoiding musters forever.

Does anyone know if there is any official support being provided for this game, on any forum? I just sent the designer a GM asking if he can come here to answer questions.

 
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Jason Brown
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Zouave wrote:
Does anyone know if there is any official support being provided for this game, on any forum? I just sent the designer a GM asking if he come here to answer questions.

Unfortunately, it looks like everyone involved with this game have washed their hands of it and left it to us. The same thing happened with Warhammer Quest: The Adventure Card game, the Saddlers simply stopped answering questions after a time. I think FFG told them to stop in that case, but the end result is the same.

So, congratulations Paul... you're on the official rules adjudication panel!
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Kevin Erskine
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MAJBrown22 wrote:
So, congratulations Paul... you're on the official rules adjudication panel!


Works for me
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Dave S
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I've setup my first game but yet to start. The siege discussion above scares me a bit because even after reading it twice and looking through the rulebook I'm not sure I understand what to do. I guess I'll be back with specific questions, but I'd love for someone to put together a short explanation/ specific example of what to do on a siege turn. Maybe we can convince the Sadlers to do it.
 
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Kevin Erskine
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Tim's steps 1-8 are spot on. That's a worst case, specific to a despair card during a siege that crosses a conquest spot.

The key point is that say you're looking at the Despair card. It has a section labeled Despair: and some things that happen. You ignore all that because now the objective board shows a spot that says Despair: that's the one you do. Then you the siege and other effects on the card.

After everything on the card, you do any conquest actions if you passed one of those spots.
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Dave S
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Great! After playing a few rounds last night (not in the siege yet) it makes a lot more sense now that I read it again.

I do find I am referring back to the rulebook a lot in this game as it seems that the summary page on the back doesn't quite have everything I need, but will probably be ok once I know the game better.

Thanks for the help.

Edit: Is it true that you do the conquest action after the card text even pre-siege? For some reason I thought I read you do conquest immediately after passing it (can't seem to find that in the rulebook now).
 
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Paul Aceto
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On page 13 it says that if a Conquest ability is reached due to an enemy action card, “resolve that card completely first.”
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Duncan Munro
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I have a different interpretation of the rule. After playing a 4-player game and struggling through a couple rounds of siege we tried to think things through. We were frustrated by the seemingly duplicate and, in some cases, conflicting directions in the conquest and siege steps of the cards.

Maybe file this under variant, but this is how I think I'm going to play.

1) Prior to the siege you read the conquest, scheme, or march section of the cards, along with any darkness fate die actions as applicable. These actions correspond with the directions in the coloured boxes at the bottom of page 5.

2) If an objective matching a conquest action has been completed (before the seige) then you perform the action on the board that was under the objective card INSTEAD of the card action. You still perform darkness fate actions as before.

This forces the conquest track to raise after the objective is completed, making completing objectives slightly worse than leaving one marker on the board with 0zero enemies.

3) Once the siege begins you discard any objectives, except the final, if revealed. Then all enemy cards activate ONLY the siege action and the darkness fate action, if applicable. Actions are still activated top to bottom, so the order of the fate and siege actions can matter. This applies to ALL enemy actions, not just the conquest ones.

Consider the Orcneas Scheme card.

Before the siege, you do scheme and then darkness. This does bad stuff if the captains are in the quest areas, then moves them (typically towards quest areas), then activates darkness which moves all captains toward quest areas.

During the siege you resolve the darkness first, which has a much higher chance during the siege, and then resolve the Siege section which strips resources and might activate the Orcneas himself.

Anyway, the cards seem to be less conflicting if the only have one action, plus darkness, that changes depending on siege or not. It's still difficult, but is no longer brutal with multiple chains of effects. Reading both actions leads to all the conquest tracks to quickly max out and causes players to double spawn/muster for a single action.
 
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Kevin Erskine
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GameGhost wrote:
I have a different interpretation of the rule. After playing a 4-player game and struggling through a couple rounds of siege we tried to think things through. We were frustrated by the seemingly duplicate and, in some cases, conflicting directions in the conquest and siege steps of the cards.

Maybe file this under variant, but this is how I think I'm going to play.

1) Prior to the siege you read the conquest, scheme, or march section of the cards, along with any darkness fate die actions as applicable. These actions correspond with the directions in the coloured boxes at the bottom of page 5.

2) If an objective matching a conquest action has been completed (before the seige) then you perform the action on the board that was under the objective card INSTEAD of the card action. You still perform darkness fate actions as before.

This forces the conquest track to raise after the objective is completed, making completing objectives slightly worse than leaving one marker on the board with 0zero enemies.

3) Once the siege begins you discard any objectives, except the final, if revealed. Then all enemy cards activate ONLY the siege action and the darkness fate action, if applicable. Actions are still activated top to bottom, so the order of the fate and siege actions can matter. This applies to ALL enemy actions, not just the conquest ones.

Consider the Orcneas Scheme card.

Before the siege, you do scheme and then darkness. This does bad stuff if the captains are in the quest areas, then moves them (typically towards quest areas), then activates darkness which moves all captains toward quest areas.

During the siege you resolve the darkness first, which has a much higher chance during the siege, and then resolve the Siege section which strips resources and might activate the Orcneas himself.

Anyway, the cards seem to be less conflicting if the only have one action, plus darkness, that changes depending on siege or not. It's still difficult, but is no longer brutal with multiple chains of effects. Reading both actions leads to all the conquest tracks to quickly max out and causes players to double spawn/muster for a single action.


I think I followed all of this. It's the very last part that I agree with completely. The double spawn\muster seems crazy. Although I guess in a way the extra minions aren't a huge problem for the tracks, but they can destroy structures and have overruns which are the big threat once the siege starts.
 
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Ben
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That’s how I play it as well. Once a conquest portion of the board is revealed either by completing one of them or siege starts and they are all revealed, they replace and take priority.
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