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Terraforming Mars: Venus Next» Forums » Variants

Subject: World Government yes or no? rss

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Sebastian
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Simple question:
Do you use the optional rule to NOT use the World Government in your games?

I'm currently strongly in favor for playing with the WG phase.

My main point:
I assume the game is balanced for ending around a certain number of turns. Not using the WG would make the game take longer (2-3 generations in a 4 player game probably). This would benefit players building up bigger resource production more than players going early for points. Currently those approaches are really balanced but with 3 generations more you would be forced to spend more time at the beginning of the game to build up a powerful engine.

Your thoughts?
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Erik Twice
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It is necessary if you play Venux Next, otherwise the game just spirals out of control and engine-building overshadows everything else. Balance suffers and the game is not as interesting as a result.

I would not recommend not using it if using Venus Next.
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Bill Buchanan
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TermiGator wrote:
Simple question:
This would benefit players building up bigger resource production more than players going early for points. Currently those approaches are really balanced but with 3 generations more you would be forced to spend more time at the beginning of the game to build up a powerful engine.

Your thoughts?


Conversely, World Government phase kinda penalizes those players that are going for a strategy dependent on TR, as there will be far less of those VP available during the game now.

It also might make players with adaptive +/- technologies less valuable, as the scale will go up much faster to make it as useful.

The people going for a strategy depending on point cards, resources on cards, etc., will be relatively unaffected in my opinion.

To me it's just a way to speed up the game for those that complain it's too long ...

Probably won't be using it, at least at first and unless I find that Venus Next cards really do create an issue(which I'm skeptical of).
 
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Michael Denman
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Currently I like this rule as it offers another way to cause grief to other players. "You have a heat engine going and are burning up the temperature track? Well then I'll just keep bumping that track up to deprive you of SOME points at least." However, I have barely played Venus Next at this point so my opinion may change over time.
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David Goldfarb
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WBuchanan wrote:
Conversely, World Government phase kinda penalizes those players that are going for a strategy dependent on TR, as there will be far less of those VP available during the game now.

Not really. The Venus track adds 15 TR; the WG phase subtracts 1 TR per generation, but even two-player games don't usually go 15 generations. The WG phase lets other players slow down someone who is specializing in one particular source of TR, yeah.
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Bill Buchanan
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David Goldfarb wrote:
WBuchanan wrote:
Conversely, World Government phase kinda penalizes those players that are going for a strategy dependent on TR, as there will be far less of those VP available during the game now.

Not really. The Venus track adds 15 TR; the WG phase subtracts 1 TR per generation, but even two-player games don't usually go 15 generations. The WG phase lets other players slow down someone who is specializing in one particular source of TR, yeah.


Yep, and Venus Next also adds all kinds of cards that give points too.
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brian giese
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No - Our game group plays a lot of Terraforming Mars, and we like the current pace of the game. Even with this expansion, we prefer the natural length of the game. How players play and different strategy has a big impact on if this game goes 8 to 9 rounds or 12 or so rounds.
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Cooper McCann
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General_Norris wrote:
It is necessary if you play Venux Next, otherwise the game just spirals out of control and engine-building overshadows everything else. Balance suffers and the game is not as interesting as a result.

I would not recommend not using it if using Venus Next.


After one game of not playing this way (i.e. no World Government) I would have to agree. Our game went wildly out of control (runaway winner), and in fact Venus was maxed out before any terraforming was done on Mars, yikes. Might be an isolated scenario, but it showed the craziness that was possible.
Still a fun game, even if I was the one that got totally destroyed at the end.
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Cooper McCann
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We tried something new. I made a die with the global parameters (Venus, Heat, Ocean, Oxygen, and two blanks) and we rolled it for the solar phase. Didn't give anyone any particular advantage and probably saved us a generation is all, but it worked well.
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Gene
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ponymont wrote:
We tried something new. I made a die with the global parameters (Venus, Heat, Ocean, Oxygen, and two blanks) and we rolled it for the solar phase. Didn't give anyone any particular advantage and probably saved us a generation is all, but it worked well.


Not something I would likely use over the rules as written; but I think this is a cool idea thumbsup
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Flight Doc
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INHO, in response to OP, WG speeds the game too much. My wife and I played a 2P game without. It only lasted 15 gen and the oceans weren’t placed as rapidly and the blue cards that are ultra powerful couldn’t be played too quick. Oddly enough, we actually maxed out Venus track and still the game wasn’t a drawn out process.
 
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Bill Buchanan
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Just thinking out loud, but it might be fun if they someday make it so that players vote in some way for which parameter gets increased during this phase.

Not sure what that would look like ...

Maybe give each player a card representing each parameter, then each player can choose to play influence represented by cards in the hand (along with the parameter card of their choice, which counts as an influence and can also be played by itself). Parameter with the most influence gets increased?
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Matthieu Fontaines
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I tried once to play Venus without WG, on a 3P game, it was not really pleasant, much too long in my opinion, with engines going out of control at the end.

We finished in 11 generations, so the "WG saves 2 generations" seems quite accurate in this case, since we most of the time play around 9 or 10 gens

Note that one of the other players really enjoyed it... so YMMV
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Bill Buchanan
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Played a 2p Venus Next game with my wife on Saturaday. Hellas map, drafting. We tried it with the Solar/world government phase.

After the game I asked my wife if she like it, and she indicated that she did not. She specifically mentioned how she didn't like that you missed out on some of the bonuses on the scales and from oceans. There were times when she was planning on trying to get one and I'd move the parameter past it.

I found most of the time, unless there was an advantage like mentioned above, we'd just use the WG to move the Venus Scale up as neither really cared about it anyways.

We both agreed that we're unlikely to use this again, and will just play the "variant" to skip it for a longer game. If we're short on time we'll just play another game.
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Malcolm K
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We played with the WG phase for our first ten or so plays with Venus Next. After that we decided to go back to no WG phase, and everyone is fine with that. There's a group of five of us who get together for a couple of games a week. We've been playing without the WG for a few weeks now and no one misses it.

2-player games go 13 generations, 3-player games go 10-12.
 
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Peter S.
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If playing with Venus, I'd much rather play with WG. It's an interesting strategic decision, and keeps the game from stretching too long.

I'd rather just skip Venus entirely than play Venus without WG. I have found that just requiring Venus maxed hits a sweet spot in ensuring a slightly longer game, though in our games Venus is usually fully mined for points by the time Mars is finished anyway.
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Bill Buchanan
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Played a 4-player game the other day. We didn't use the World Government rules. We noticed no problems by not using it.
 
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