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Subject: Fenris Class Ship Card (FFO) rss

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Joe Kepler
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My latest in my FFO series. Fenris class ship from the online game that wasn't...yet.

Description of the ship:
"FENRIS CLASS
TYPE: Express Transport
CAPACITY: Light Bulk
FUSELAGE: Cutter
CLASS: Fenris Class
The Fenris Class Light Bulk transport is another premium ship from the Ballestra Shipwrights. Designated an “express freighter”, the Fenris is fast and agile, a great choice for those urgent cargos that absolutely, positively must be there, you know, really fast." -Firefly Online

Ship art credit to Sean Kennedy (At least that is who I think deserves the credit. If I'm wrong, apologies to the artist).

I had fun with this one. Wolfrider is a nod to one of my favorite comic series, Elfquest, and a hint at the Fenris/Wolf connection. Fast ship, smaller cargo. The Special Rule is a reflection of the above description.

Have fun and keep flyin'.

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Ralph Stratford
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Re: Fenris Class Ship Card
You may want to change the wording of the special ability as you only "work" a job at the pick up sector and at the destination sector. The flying in between is not working the job.

Something along the lines of "While a Transport or Smuggling Job is Active add +1 to Full Burn Range" would do it. This is in line with the wording of Heavy Load Jobs.

Something to keep in mind is you could start a Transport/Smuggling Job then sell the Cargo/Contraband and retain the +1 to your Max Range for the rest of the game! While this reduces you to 2 Active Jobs it''s not often you need all 3 job slots open so you don't really suffer any consequences.
 
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Thorfinn Skullsplitter
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Re: Fenris Class Ship Card
That's pretty cool. I like the special rule. May have to purloin that or something like that at some point if'n you don't mind. whistle

You may want to consider a larger cargo hold. I'm unfamiliar with the FO ships, but from the image, it seems like the hold is at least as large as a Firefly. It might be 'light bulk' but it's still bulk. In play terms, it's not much more space than the Interceptor, and we see how much play time it gets. I think if you add 2 more to the hold, while maintaining the small stash, it'd be fine.

Now the important part - the miniature. How do we get this on the table?

Also, have you got any sort of Starter Upgrades in mind?
 
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George Krubski
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Re: Fenris Class Ship Card
I put the price of the Wolfrider, as currently depicted, at 7500, or 7900 if the Drive Core is replaceable.

Given that I think the Fenris is intended as a potential starting ship in the MMO, this price isn't unreasonable. As a potentially related side note, I've toyed with the idea of a ship (or ships) with a feature called something like "Affordable," where you actually GET BACK money, sort of the inverse of the Series 4 Fireflies, where you have to pay for starting upgrades. The idea with these ships would be that they're competitive but slightly substandard, but the boost of starting cash helps out.

Anyway, back to the Wolfrider...

If you accept that it's a little subpar, but still potentially competitive, I think it works, with a few tweaks.

As some folks have alluded, I think there's potential to abuse the special ability by starting and never finishing the job - or even planning to. To avoid the abuse of selling the stuff, I would go with something like:


"Delivery Guaranteed: +1 to Full Burn Range when you have at least 1 Active Shipping or Smuggling Job. You must be carrying the Goods necessary to complete the Job."

 
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Joe Kepler
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Re: Fenris Class Ship Card
Dalek1 wrote:
You may want to change the wording of the special ability as you only "work" a job at the pick up sector and at the destination sector. The flying in between is not working the job.

Something along the lines of "While a Transport or Smuggling Job is Active add +1 to Full Burn Range" would do it. This is in line with the wording of Heavy Load Jobs.

Something to keep in mind is you could start a Transport/Smuggling Job then sell the Cargo/Contraband and retain the +1 to your Max Range for the rest of the game! While this reduces you to 2 Active Jobs it''s not often you need all 3 job slots open so you don't really suffer any consequences.


I was thinking about that (as I always do) after I posted it. Seems like I have to hit 'submit' before I think of these things. I knew one of you guys would catch it and make a recommendation with the right wording. I'll get that fixed. Thanks.

Scarbuck wrote:
That's pretty cool. I like the special rule. May have to purloin that or something like that at some point if'n you don't mind. whistle


That's why I post them. Mama always taught me to share.

Scarbuck wrote:
You may want to consider a larger cargo hold. I'm unfamiliar with the FO ships, but from the image, it seems like the hold is at least as large as a Firefly. It might be 'light bulk' but it's still bulk. In play terms, it's not much more space than the Interceptor, and we see how much play time it gets. I think if you add 2 more to the hold, while maintaining the small stash, it'd be fine.


With my FFO ships, they look something like this:
Ship.....Hold Stash Movement
Kepler....4 2 7
Peregrine.4 3 7
Sandfly...5 2 6
Fenris....5 3 6
Shu-fu....6 3 5
Monty's...7 3 5
Firefly...8 4 5
Pilgrim...10 2 5
Sampan....12 2 4
Chang'e...16 0 4

##Gah! I cannot keep the columns once I submit it. You can get the idea if you put it in rows and columns##

I get the space issue, which I try to balance out with speed. Bigger hold=slower ship, smaller hold=faster ship. I don't want a bunch of different labels but essentially the same ship. Every ship has it's pro's and con's with the firefly's being sort of the 'center' of the scale. That's why I have the hold the size that it is.



Scarbuck wrote:
Now the important part - the miniature. How do we get this on the table?


Indeed. Perhaps our NorseKnight friend can add one to his collection?

Quote:
Also, have you got any sort of Starter Upgrades in mind?


None at this time. I'm trying to get the ships done, then on to Drive Core's, then on to upgrades. What upgrades are you thinking of?

Gwek wrote:
I put the price of the Wolfrider, as currently depicted, at 7500, or 7900 if the Drive Core is replaceable.


Question on that $7500. Doesn't that special ability have a cost to it? I had 7500 on the ship cost generator, but the special ability has to be figured in to right?

Gwek wrote:
As some folks have alluded, I think there's potential to abuse the special ability by starting and never finishing the job - or even planning to. To avoid the abuse of selling the stuff, I would go with something like:


"Delivery Guaranteed: +1 to Full Burn Range when you have at least 1 Active Shipping or Smuggling Job. You must be carrying the Goods necessary to complete the Job."


Good wording by both.

Speaking of 'playability', I thought of giving the ship a +2 to Full Burn for active shipping or smuggling jobs to help balance out the lack of cargo space. Too much? Maybe I should use this idea on the Kepler or save it for the Peregrine. Thoughts?
 
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George Krubski
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Re: Fenris Class Ship Card
On the cost - are you using the old generator or the revised numbers we worked through about two months ago?

Using those numbers, the "basics" come out to 6900, plus 600 for the special ability = 7500. That assumes 3 open upgrade slots, but a locked drive core slot. If the Drive Core is replaceable, cost goes up to 7900, just north of the cost of a standard Firefly.

One thing to consider with increased range is that there's sort of a point of diminishing returns. Yes, there ARE times that can smoothly go 7, 8, 9 Sectors, but with the new Nav Cards from Kalidasa in play, those times are fewer and farther between than these used to be.



 
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Joe Kepler
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Re: Fenris Class Ship Card
gwek wrote:
On the cost - are you using the old generator or the revised numbers we worked through about two months ago?


Not sure. I'm using the format you emailed to me. Kinda at a loss on figuring out costs for special abilities. I must have been sleeping during that class. I just checked the generator and it still comes out at $7500 for me.

Quote:
Using those numbers, the "basics" come out to 6900, plus 600 for the special ability = 7500. That assumes 3 open upgrade slots, but a locked drive core slot. If the Drive Core is replaceable, cost goes up to 7900, just north of the cost of a standard Firefly.


I am not locking the drive core on this ship. If the special ability is worth $600, then cost is at $8,100.

Quote:
One thing to consider with increased range is that there's sort of a point of diminishing returns. Yes, there ARE times that can smoothly go 7, 8, 9 Sectors, but with the new Nav Cards from Kalidasa in play, those times are fewer and farther between than these used to be.


Yes, you are correct there. Would a rule of reduced nav cards work for this ship? Meaning, the ship can move D6 before having to draw a nav card. What would that ability cost? How much of a game changer would that be? Too much?
 
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George Krubski
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Re: Fenris Class Ship Card
JediKep wrote:
Not sure. I'm using the format you emailed to me. Kinda at a loss on figuring out costs for special abilities. I must have been sleeping during that class. I just checked the generator and it still comes out at $7500 for me.


I think you're using the old numbers. I put together a revised generator for myself, but need to clean it up a bit for public consumption. If you send me a PM, I can e-mail it when it's done.

As for special abilities, we've sort of defaulted them to 600 each. Mostly. With some room for "synergy taxes."

Quote:
I am not locking the drive core on this ship. If the special ability is worth $600, then cost is at $8,100.


An unlocked Core Drive would add 400, bringing the cost to 7900 by my current estimates.

Quote:
Yes, you are correct there. Would a rule of reduced nav cards work for this ship? Meaning, the ship can move D6 before having to draw a nav card. What would that ability cost? How much of a game changer would that be? Too much?


That would be a pretty big game changer (unless you're using the Clearer Skies set-up). I would be inclined to shy away from that, or to include it as a starting Upgrade, which I would probably price at 1200 or 1600.

To me, though, that sounds like something better suited to stealth (avoiding trouble) or sensors rather than the UPS of the 'Verse.
 
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Joe Kepler
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Re: Fenris Class Ship Card
Perhaps "Shipping lanes" could be used. Either a "skip a card" option or have a set number of free spaces they can full burn before drawing a nav card. Worded as, When Full Burning, move 2 spaces before drawing a nav card. The theory being that known shipping lanes would have less obstacles.

As far as the generator goes, I must have the older version because our numbers don't match up.
 
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Thorfinn Skullsplitter
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Re: Fenris Class Ship Card
How about something like:

Shipping Lanes: Once per turn, when entering a Planetary Sector, you do not have to draw a Nav card.

The idea being your shipping lanes will be going from planet to planet, so those areas closest to planets are going to be the most familiar.
 
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Joe Kepler
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Re: Fenris Class Ship Card
I like it.
 
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Joe Kepler
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My mostly final version.



And a drive core to match

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Joe Kepler
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Scarbuck wrote:


Now the important part - the miniature. How do we get this on the table?



THIS....



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Timothy Finn
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Holy frickin moly. Please please please please tell me he is willing to make all the ships?!?!?! That is so gorram amazing.
 
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Joe Kepler
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Apollo117X wrote:
Holy frickin moly. Please please please please tell me he is willing to make all the ships?!?!?! That is so gorram amazing.


He said he is. We just have to figure out the logistics of it all: ordering, shipping, payment (he should get something for such awesome work) etc.

Once we figure all that out, I'll pass it on.

And yes, they are sweet. I am super happy they are turning out so nice.
 
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Timothy Finn
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JediKep wrote:
Apollo117X wrote:
Holy frickin moly. Please please please please tell me he is willing to make all the ships?!?!?! That is so gorram amazing.


He said he is. We just have to figure out the logistics of it all: ordering, shipping, payment (he should get something for such awesome work) etc.

Once we figure all that out, I'll pass it on.

And yes, they are sweet. I am super happy they are turning out so nice.


Oh of course, I wasnt implying that he should just make them all and send them out for free I'd love to pay him for this detailed work. NorseKnight has some hardcore competition now. Although I am basing that off the previews that are given on Shapeways, maybe the actual models have more detail than they let on. But still, these are amazing, Im so excited. Can he do an aces and eights model next to preview?
 
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Joe Kepler
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Take a number. Lol. My friend is suddenly very popular in several forums.

I'm going to try to get all the FFO ships printed out first, and then we can talk about runs and batches.
 
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George Krubski
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You can post stuff like this and not expect folks to want it.

Given that I'm sure your associate will have an eventual limit, I would suggest not prioritizing the Aces & Eights - there are already two options: Norseknight's version on Shapeways and Ryan Wolfe's Renegade on 0-hr.
 
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Roger BW
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Yeah, this is finer resolution than my usual print - I could try it with the 0.25mm nozzle but that's a lot slower.
 
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Thorfinn Skullsplitter
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Timothy Finn
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JediKep wrote:
Take a number. Lol. My friend is suddenly very popular in several forums.

I'm going to try to get all the FFO ships printed out first, and then we can talk about runs and batches.


Chill yo, I know I know. I was just super keen to see what else he can do, but Im well aware he's probably a very popular person right now.
 
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Joe Kepler
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Next up will be the Komodo and then the Peregrine.

After that I'm gonna try to get the other six or so ships made, then give him Monty's ship sketch and see what happens. We are having a blast with this.
 
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George Krubski
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Kep, can you create a single post with lists and links? Or maybe even a thread that collects things as they get close to final?

By my accounting, the ships from the MMO were:

- Firefly, Series I (light transport)
- Shu Fu (light transport)
- Sandfly (light transport)
- Kepler (light science)
- Sampan (light transport)
- Fenris (light express transport)
- Peregrine (light transport)
- Pilgrim (mid colonist transport)
- Chang'e (mid mining vessel)
- Hanover (mid salvager)
- Komodo (mid auxiliary)
- Titan (heavy transport)

Also, the Brutus, which appears to be a heavy transport.

I know this isn't the direction you're headed, but at one point, I considered doing cheaper or "starter" vehicles (smaller Hold, smaller Crew, probably only 2 Active Jobs at a pop) for the light ships. Unfortunately, that idea is really only workable in a campaign, where you have time to build up and evolve your ship, so the idea fell to the wayside.
 
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Joe Kepler
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gwek wrote:
Kep, can you create a single post with lists and links? Or maybe even a thread that collects things as they get close to final?

By my accounting, the ships from the MMO were:

- Firefly, Series I (light transport)
- Shu Fu (light transport)
- Sandfly (light transport)
- Kepler (light science)
- Sampan (light transport)
- Fenris (light express transport)
- Peregrine (light transport)
- Pilgrim (mid colonist transport)
- Chang'e (mid mining vessel)
- Hanover (mid salvager)
- Komodo (mid auxiliary)
- Titan (heavy transport)

Also, the Brutus, which appears to be a heavy transport.

I know this isn't the direction you're headed, but at one point, I considered doing cheaper or "starter" vehicles (smaller Hold, smaller Crew, probably only 2 Active Jobs at a pop) for the light ships. Unfortunately, that idea is really only workable in a campaign, where you have time to build up and evolve your ship, so the idea fell to the wayside.


I was planning to get everything under one roof once I finished hashing out the details and quirks of each ship. I'm still fiddling with things.

I don't have plans for the Brutus or the Titan. I cannot think of a practical way to include them in the board game at this time.

A campaign huh? Yeah, I can see that happening. Some of the FFO folks are talking about getting their stories converted to the game, so that is possible.

I've always wondered why they had the active jobs set at three but never did anything with it. Lots of things could be done there to spice up a game.
 
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Dave Rowley
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JediKep wrote:

I've always wondered why they had the active jobs set at three but never did anything with it. Lots of things could be done there to spice up a game.

If you get Solid with Magistrate Higgins you can have 4 Active Jobs.
 
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