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Subject: Using health items/perks after taking fatal damage rss

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Joe none
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We had an incident tonight, a player's rads were towards the middle, and his health was also towards the middle, within 3 spaces of each other.

The player failed an encounter card that resulted with 4 damage being taken. This essentially killed the player. The player then used one of his perks to heal for max health to stay alive.

We argued about this for a bit, one side stating that one shot items with no rules of when to use them can be used as instants (think Magic the Gathering, instants can be used to interrupt events in the stack, the health gets applied, then the effect of losing the HP completes after this).

But this isn't MTG, and I didn't see anything in the rules about how and when you can specifically use your items in this case.

My question is... when he took fatal damage, is he dead, therefore he can't use any items or perks? Or can he quickly throw that one shot health card down and avoid his death?

I don't remember the specific quest (I believe it was one of the Vault 84 cards) and I don't remember the exact item/perk used, but it was one of the use any time health cards.
 
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Christopher Scatliff
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He is dead.

Perk cards can only be used between actions, not in the middle of an action. They cannot interrupt an action in progress.

That restriction only applies to perks, though. If he had a stimpak, for example, he could have used it to survive.

ETA: Just re-read your last sentence. As I mentioned above, the answer to this question completely depends on whether he used an item card or a perk card. Two different scenarios.
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Joe none
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I was trying to find an actual official rule regarding this, or if it's just a general consensus type of thing or a house rule.

I guess what I was seeing was that this is an RPG, and even if you want to take it form the video game itself (or others action RPGs), if you die, you die. The game doesn't pause and say "Hey, do you want to use some health?" You just die and respawn (or whatever, depending on the game).

I was kind of taking that idea from playing those games into the boardgame.

I'm fine either way, but since I didn't see an actual rule stating either way, I was interpreting it one way, and my buddy was interpreting it the other way.

So Perks (like the one that gives you full health back, sorry I don't have the cards in front of me at the moment) can only be used between actions.

Items, such as stimpacks, can be used instantly, any time, even if you take fatal damage?
 
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Joe
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corvettejoe wrote:
So Perks (like the one that gives you full health back, sorry I don't have the cards in front of me at the moment) can only be used between actions.

Items, such as stimpacks, can be used instantly, any time, even if you take fatal damage?


Yes.

The rules write out that perks are limited, but never mention any other type of card. I would also assume they are fair game to use. Items and companions can be used at any time unless their card specifically states they cannot.

It is a bit like a video game in that regard as there are plenty of instant healing potions and such. You can always rule they have to be used outside of actions to make the game a bit harder, but of course everyone should agree before the situation comes up.
 
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Christopher Scatliff
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corvettejoe wrote:
I'm fine either way, but since I didn't see an actual rule stating either way, I was interpreting it one way, and my buddy was interpreting it the other way.


It's in there. There's a little box that talks about how perks are used. I think it's in the LtP, but I don't feel like walking to the other room to get the book to quote you the page number. Just read them again.
 
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Joe none
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I got the books out and opened the game box up just now.


I remember now it was the stimpak that was being used and not a perk. I do see the specific references you all mentioned regarding when a perk is used. That's spelled out mostly clear, or as clear as Fantasy Flight can make it.


Page 9 in the reference states this for being Killed:

When a survivor is killed during a fight, the fight ends,
and no additional steps are resolved.

When a survivor is killed during his or her turn, the turn
immediately ends. The survivor cannot perform any more
actions or use perks.


That stated, using an item is not an action or a step.

BUT... I did see this. (I got the cards in front of me) On the stimpak card it specifically states "on your turn..." And the killed rule states "when you're killed during your turn, your turn immediately ends".

I would interpret this as you can't use a stimpak to heal fatal damage since your turn immediate ends and therefore you can't use the stimpak.
And if you are killed during a fight during enemy movement, you couldn't use a stimpac either because it's not your turn (it's the game's turn).

What do you all think?



 
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Christopher Scatliff
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You can’t heal the damage after you apply it, but I would rule that there’s a window of time after you roll the dice but before you apply the damage in which you could discard a stimpak to give yourself enough healing to survive the attack.

If the enemy hits hard enough, not even a stimpak will save you.
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Aaron Day
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Smoo wrote:
You can’t heal the damage after you apply it, but I would rule that there’s a window of time after you roll the dice but before you apply the damage in which you could discard a stimpak to give yourself enough healing to survive the attack.

If that's true, the Stimpack still has the restriction that you can only use it on your turn. This means that if you initiated the fight via a fight action that you could use a Stimpack in combat but if the fight was started because a monster was triggered by an Agenda card I could not be used.

For consistency, I'd have to rule that any card that is restricted to "During your turn" can't be used in a fight. Only cards that specifically say "During a fight" can be used during a fight.

Of course, none of this addresses Curie and other "Exhaust to" cards.
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