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Kingdom Death: Monster» Forums » General

Subject: Should I feel bad for using the "pre-nerf" saviors? rss

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Austin Wyant
United States
Oklahoma
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I am playing this game on Tabletop Simulator solo since my friends are on vacation right now and we can't play in person. I thought I had the 1.5 version, but I recently realized that the saviors in my game are pre-nerf and quite strong. Are they so broken that I should feel guilty not finding the ruleset for the post-nerf saviors?
 
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Klutz
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Well, do you feel guilty?
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George Aristides
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Well, the saviors in 1.3 are stronger but not completely broken. But in 1.5 you can only ever have one savior. So if you want you could play with the old saviors for now, but only have one at a time.
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Austin Wyant
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Yah
 
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Austin Wyant
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I have the ones that get bonuses for each affinity, get+3 bonus hunt XP, extra strength at each age milestone, automatic hit confirms, for the beast guy at least. Which version are they? I'm thinking about switching because my guy already kinda feels unfair.
 
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Alessio Massuoli
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Terni
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1.31. Anyway, the red savior is the weakest of the gang.
The real boon is that you can have many, and that you can make them Ageless.
 
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Blue Prophet
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As someone who only has 1.5. I would appreciate someone giving the full details on the earlier version of a savior (1.31?), for comparisons sake in case I want to house rule using them.

I think more powerful saviors might be a fun variant for a slightly easier game. Especially if you can have multiples.
 
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Nick Wirtz
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There are a lot of changes, but the short version:

Savior first buffs used to be essentially automatic (buffs based on affinities, nothing spent and no special timing), and they'd get +3 age at the end of each fight, regardless.

They didn't get their SFAs, instead they got stat buffs at age events.

You could get any number of them.

They could get Ageless, which seemed unintentional/unexpected.


 
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Fen Batten
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No, it's your game, play it how you want to. KD:M is intended to be a customisable experience with homebrew and house rules.

i.e. I do NOT play with the new Hours Ring or Forsaker Mask.
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Pietro Pomella
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fenpaints wrote:
No, it's your game, play it how you want to. KD:M is intended to be a customisable experience with homebrew and house rules.

i.e. I do NOT play with the new Hours Ring or Forsaker Mask.


Do you mind sharing what the changes are with the two items listed?
 
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Nick Wirtz
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The old forsaker mask gave you an extra action and is irreplaceable, or can be spent for a new location; the new one kills you and is irreplaceable so you lose it, or it can be spent. I have no idea why they changed it from risky to transparently self-destructive. Since it can be spent to make a powerful option, and has virtually no merits on its own (2 armor for 1 gear slot on a survivor which will die must be the most corner-case item there is), the only possible use I can think of is prepping for a boss where someone needs to die and you don't think a mask will help you.

The old hours ring negated tokens and meant you could depart when retired; the new one gets you a re-do. I believe the reason is because there are some weird exploits around not getting tokens, but I still prefer the old one, too.
 
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Dan Wilson
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The new saviours are certainly not as good as the old in my opinion, but that shouldn't stop you from enjoying the game.
Play however you want.

If I would make a change, I would at least add the caveat that they cannot be ageless as Poots has stated clearly they were never intended to be able to be ageless, but again, your game so play how you want.


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Drew Olds
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A new savior can actually be significantly more powerful than the old ones, if played right, but they're mostly less powerful than the older versions.


Ultimately, playing with the old ones is no big deal- go for it.
 
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Sven Wasberg
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spiralingcadaver wrote:
The old forsaker mask gave you an extra action and is irreplaceable, or can be spent for a new location; the new one kills you and is irreplaceable so you lose it, or it can be spent. I have no idea why they changed it from risky to transparently self-destructive. Since it can be spent to make a powerful option, and has virtually no merits on its own (2 armor for 1 gear slot on a survivor which will die must be the most corner-case item there is), the only possible use I can think of is prepping for a boss where someone needs to die and you don't think a mask will help you.

The old hours ring negated tokens and meant you could depart when retired; the new one gets you a re-do. I believe the reason is because there are some weird exploits around not getting tokens, but I still prefer the old one, too.


That´s why I want to play with them and some of other interesting 1.3 stuff when I start a new campaign. Of course this needs some houserules.

For example:

You can only get the old Forsaker Mask if you already have a Mask Maker.
That means you need to get 2 Forsaker Masks before you can use the old and awesome rules.

I think I will make the old hours ring unique and irreplaceable. f it is still to strong, I raise the cost for it a bit.

I have other examples of rules I would like to change. At the moment I am thinking about how I can get old the Lion Set and some of the non iron weapons good enough to be also relevant during lategame. I was thinking about some restriction for the Lion Set, which would in exchange give some of the non iron weapons sharp or give/improve deadly. Of course this would change the balance of the game and needs restrictions because of that. For example the Lion Set only gives sharp if you have both of the unique armor pieces of the lion god equiped.
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