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Subject: So what is the verdict? rss

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Roger Reisinger
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How are people finding the upgrade kit?

I have looked through the components and some units have diffetent stats even though they are the same tupe of unit, is this correct? Eg: my rifle team 901 has a defense of 3, while all others have 2.

Also, in the description of the game it says play the ‘mega campaign’ that links your units from Poland to Berlin, but I didnt see anything on bringing you group of units from one campaign to the next.

Will try my first session shortly.

Thx for any thoughts/ feedback.
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Charles Ting
Malaysia
Sibu
Sarawak
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Personally, what I feel disappointed the most is the fact that they did not exactly bring the game up to SL's standard as promised. I mean, i think it would be better if the upgrade kit comes with a new rulebook, extra d10 and d6, markers for the special tiles, and an updated player aid. Also, IMO, without the SL's base game tiles, we get compelled (so to speak) into buying the special tiles.
Just my two cents.
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Gator Skin
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Evanston
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I'm really enjoying Tiger Leader with the update kit! But, yes, there are a number of issues that have just been ignored.

- There is nowhere to download an updated edition Tiger Leader rulebook. This is just ridiculous.

- Reportedly, the expansion-pack tiles are sized for Sherman Leader, which are *not* really the same size as Tiger Leader -- so who would want to order that?

- If there's a "campaign" element, it must be in that missing rulebook.

- This is only somewhat annoying, but yes, some of the numbers on the counters (for example, French Rifle counters) vary from counter to counter.

This is all a real shame, since it's a fun game.
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Charles Ting
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I wrote to DVG and being informed that they're going to post a new rulebook (which might take a few months due to other projects). Plus, they're going to reprint the game very soon anyway so "all will be updated to Sherman standard"
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Chris Knowles
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A couple of other points:-

1. Card quality (thickness) is way below that of my original TL.
2. A number of armour units have not been included, there is now only one Tiger one King Tiger and one Panther, there may also be others missing but these are of note (it is called TIGER leader but with only one per set up, hmm). I'm going to retain the original counters and cards for these so I can have a platoon of each.
3. The included rule update sheet is rather poorly presented, for instance I wondered what the new red numbers on the counters were for, had to find this buried in the text rather than having a picture of the new units. Not a huge issue but annoying nonetheless.

Only just received my copy and so there may be other issues (such as those you pointed out), time will tell.

I did get this with SL so I'm OK working with that to help with TL but if this was bought as a separate update I would be rather less happy.

One final point. I bought both the TL and SL neoprene mats to replace my boards. You really only need one of these as they are both virtually identical and one can be used for both games as far as I can tell. Just a heads up for any future purchasers of these mats, just consider buying one (unless anyone knows of any other reason to buy both).
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Roger Reisinger
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Re: So what is the verdict?+
So played my first 2 games of TL and have some thoughts to add:

- components between the base game and upgrade kit as different, neither of which were that great. My base game had different shades of colour between some of the cards, and the cards in the upgrade kit are of lesser quality and seem to have some misprints ( like the different defense values of same units I mentioned above... are German rifles 2 or 3 defense? I think 2 as ‘experienced’ rifles are 4, and I think ‘experienced’ doubles defense right? ).

- commanders are a bit hard to navigate, clearly commanders with abilities are better than those who gain no abilities... this could have been made easier with a footnote on the face of ‘recruits’ or with a player aid.

- the extra thick tiles I appreciated, and the upgrade tiles came pre-rounded which I like... but there is a lack of stress tokens.

- gameplay is fun. You have a difficult choice of choosing powerful units and maybe not having enough boots on the ground to be successful, and not choosing enough of those units that you get demolished on the battlefield.

- the main reason I bought the game was to play a monster campaign, building an attack force that starts in Poland and then fights in each theatre in each campaign to create a monster campaign, very dissapointed from what I can tell this has not been included in the game or was ever designed.

Overall I would rate the game as good, 6/10, with some holes that can be either ignored or worked around if you are creative. The main draw of the game to me isn’t the AI or battle system which are both very much basic, but the xp system and upgrading your units as you proceed through the game. To this end I will make some basic rules for bringing units from one campaign to another and try to have a balanced experience. Has anyone mucked around with this?

Im thinking:

- start the ‘full war’ campaign with +20SO, so start with Poland and 70SO.
- all commanders start ‘recruit’ and you may pay 1/2/4 SO to raise the xp level of any commander, doubling the cost for every level you want to advance, with the limited being ‘Sk’, and the cost being cumulative. So to hire a recruit commander is free, to upgrade him from RE -> G costs 1SO, but upgrade him to Sk would cost 1+2+4=7. *This way you can choose to start with better quality commander, or more units, or better starting units.
- at the end of a campaign you earn bonus SO based on the victory level you achieved: Dismal is a loss, the campaign is over for you... you have effectively been replaced as corps commander, poor is no bonus, adequete is +5SO, good is +10SO, and great +10SO and a free commander level up.

*edit: I should add you get nothing new nor SO’s between campaigns, that is why you earn the vicory bonus. You move through each campign with what you had left after the previous campaign and move through the campaigns in chronological order. Also, campaign objectives are drawn randomly at the start of the campaign.

If anyone has worked on something like this or has any ideas to add please post them. I dont really want to play the game just over 1 campaign, but working out a ruleset to link the campaigns makes me more excited to get this to the table again in the future.

Thx!
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Ahmed A
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I am pleased with the upgrade kit over the base game. I like most of the changes.

The biggest thing I do not like is the change in unit numbers, I think having only 1 Tiger and 1 Panther is a very dumb idea!!! Why only 1? There should be at least 2 if not more. Also there is only 2 panzer 1s and 2 panzer 2s, should be atleast 3 or 4. I bought the mini's for this game now most of my panthers/tigers are useless.

I cant think of the reasoning behind the unit number changes. Aside from that gripe I am happy with the rules.

I am getting the tile pack and ditching the stock tiles, and getting the commander deck. With all those I think it should be a decent game.
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Charles Ting
Malaysia
Sibu
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Now you guys have me thinking whether I should get the add-ons (tiles pack, neoprene mat) or Sherman Leader to make my game complete and at a value for my money.
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