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Subject: Legendary Box: only one print run? rss

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Gerritjan Roubos
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I once read somewhere that there will be only one print run.
Please tell me this isn't true, for can't get one anymore.
It's very, very high on my wishlist. arrrh
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Philip Mazzone
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I know Broken Token and Funagain have them in stock. If you check Stonemiers official page, they list a bunch of other retailers as well that currently have stock.
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Shan Rievan
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It seems to suggest that due to the small profit margins and the difficulty in shipping the huge empty boxes, it might be a hassle to produce the boxes again. Some tuckboxes were mangled due to warping of the bigger box, but that is simply a small problem. The box is huge!

That said, if there is a market for it there may be another print run just to annoy those who are scalping for a profit.

There are still some here where I am at (Singapore). So all the best in locating one!
 
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Tobias
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Jamey also said on Facebook, and these are my words, what was supposed to be a generous gift of sorts (low to no margins) was soured by all the complaints regarding things like the tuckboxes. I do not think he would ever do it again based on the experience alone.

This is why we can't have nice things.
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http://www.egyp.it/strategia/15671-legendary-box-scythe-6533...

From an online store in Italy, I don't know how much the shipping costs are.
 
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Christiaan G
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StercusCaput wrote:
Jamey also said on Facebook, and these are my words, what was supposed to be a generous gift of sorts (low to no margins) was soured by all the complaints regarding things like the tuckboxes. I do not think he would ever do it again based on the experience alone.

This is why we can't have nice things.


That is a shame to hear. I really like the Legendary Box and the tuckboxes. So far everything fits perfectly!
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Sherlock Holmes
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OP,

get the box! It's beautiful.
 
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Brent Gerig
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Ooh, how did I miss that the Legendary box comes with tuckboxes?? Those look gorgeous (and useful). I assume premium-sleeved cards fit just fine?
 
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Ridley Bojangles
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Maybe it would have been a better/more efficient plan to combine the legendary box with the third expansion as a special edition. That's what the Proxima Centauri folks did and it worked out great.
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Jamey Stegmaier
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Here's the full post that Tobias mentioned:

There are a few reasons why we're unlikely to reprint the Legendary Box. Part of it is sustainability. I artificially deflated the MSRP from what it should have been (~$40) because I was trying to respect consumers' wallets, especially given that they were buying an empty box. Because of the artificially deflated MSRP as compared to the production and shipping cost, we pretty much just broke even on the box, and the retailers who sold it didn't fair much better. Because we skipped distribution (we would have lost money on every box) and we only sold to select retailers in increments of pallets, we ended up unintentionally excluding thousands of retailers. I don't like excluding anyone.

Why would we make a product that we only break even on? Because I love Scythe fans, and Scythe fans asked for it. It was important to them, so we made it. Those fans paid a lot of money for what amounts to an empty box, so their expectation--reasonably so--is that every aspect of the box must be perfect. So it was discouraging to see the filler tuckboxes get bent in shipping (they left the factory in perfect condition), and perhaps equally discouraging to see peoples' reaction to them, given that those tuckboxes even originally in the box--we added them purely for filler purposes. If I'm going to sacrifice profitability to make something customers want, I would prefer for those customers to be a little more forgiving. 

So I learned that if I'm going to make a product like this (or if we ever reprint the Legendary Box, which is highly unlikely), I just need to charge the "real" MSRP instead of trying to save people money. I can't change consumer behavior, but I can change the price. That way I'm not putting unfair expectations on customers to be more forgiving, and I'm not unintentionally excluding most retailers from the process.
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Gunther Schmidl
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It's a shame because here in Austria, it was basically impossible to get one without paying through the nose (€50 upwards), which, for an empty box, no.
 
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David Doughty
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Jamey,

I'm so sorry that so many people voiced their complaints in such an unforgiving attitude. When I received my legendary box...the tuck boxes also were crushed, but I was so impressed with your customer service that you have made me a customer for life. I appreciate your passion for your games and your desire to please your customers. That is rare these days.

So on behalf of the silent majority that aren't complaining, Thank you!

-David
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Pete Miller
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I can certainly understand the economics of this from your side, and I can understand not wanting to go thru that again, especially at this price point.

From my perspective, when I got my legendary box, one of the corners was crushed. It's not "bad" but it was noticeable. I get that SM wasn't making anything on these boxes, and neither was the retailer, but I did pay $25 for a box, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect the box to be in at least "very good" condition when I received it. I worked with the retailer, and they did replace it, and the second one was excellent, and I'm VERY happy with it.

I guess that's why there's such a markup on these things normally. To cover situations like this. I know I was not the only one who experienced that issue, so I am sure that was a hit to the "micro economy" of the Legendary Box distribution model.

I do feel bad for people who want a Legendary Box, and won't be able to get one.

I thought the tuckboxes would be a "throw-away" as I have the BT organizer already, and was planning to get the expansion for it. However, when I realized that I could put the plastic tray from Wind Gambit directly into one of the tuckboxes, I was super excited. I have two empty tuck boxes as "filler" for now, but I may end up using them for RoF when it comes out. We'll have to see how it fits, and what the organizer companies do to make things easier to store, setup, tear-down, organize, etc.

I'm sorry the legendary box wasn't received better by the community. Would it be possible to sell RoF packaged in the Legendary Box (obvi, additional print run) to help offset some of the markup/shipping costs? If RoF costs ~$60 retail, could someone buy it for ~$85 retail with the Legendary Box? Would that work thru the distribution method? Or would it still be cost prohibitive? (Not to mention confusing with the additional SKU, but other games seem to be able to do some of the same things. Big box versions, etc.)
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Y P
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Based on my paltry knowledge of the board game production and retail pipeline, if you had set the MSRP at $40 the street price would be around $25 anyway as it is now, so I'm not sure how that would have helped your bottom line.

The only mistake as I see it was putting art on the filler boxes. That set an unrealistic expectation for them to arrive in good condition. If they were just white cardboard I don't think there would be nearly as many complaints, but it's only natural that people expect boxes that look like they could be used to store game components and have wonderful art on them to arrive in good condition. They became an actual part of the product that people feel they paid for instead of just structural filler to keep the actual product (the outer box) intact. I'm sure there were some complaints that were way overboard, but welcome to the Internet.

If your takeaway is instead that you should have increased the MSRP, I think you're missing the point. If a higher MSRP somehow resulted in a higher price at street and a higher margin for you, expectations would be even higher that everything be perfect. You'd be moving in the wrong direction unless you also ensured the filler boxes arrived unscathed. Just IMO.
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Jamey Stegmaier
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"Would it be possible to sell RoF packaged in the Legendary Box (obvi, additional print run) to help offset some of the markup/shipping costs? If RoF costs ~$60 retail, could someone buy it for ~$85 retail with the Legendary Box? Would that work thru the distribution method? Or would it still be cost prohibitive?"

Thanks for your question. I explore this more in detail in a blog post I'll link below, but basically, for a variety of reasons I wouldn't do that. See here: https://stonemaiergames.com/one-box-to-rule-them-all/
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John Kanost
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Glad I saw this post (and read the whole thread) when I did. I'm a huge Scythe fan; it's my #1 favorite game and so far I've picked up just about everything for it, but had held off on the Legendary Box due to the timing (Christmas, finances, etc.) I assumed I'd be able to pick one up later like everything else Scythe. Ordered mine from the Broken Token not 10 minutes ago.
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Gerritjan Roubos
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Xhawk wrote:
I know Broken Token and Funagain have them in stock. If you check Stonemiers official page, they list a bunch of other retailers as well that currently have stock.

Thanks for the hint. I've checked Stonemaier Games and found a retailer in Germany which had a copy in stock.
Hope to get this delivered before the weekend.
 
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Brent Gerig
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Grishny wrote:
Glad I saw this post (and read the whole thread) when I did. I'm a huge Scythe fan; it's my #1 favorite game and so far I've picked up just about everything for it, but had held off on the Legendary Box due to the timing (Christmas, finances, etc.) I assumed I'd be able to pick one up later like everything else Scythe. Ordered mine from the Broken Token not 10 minutes ago.

Same... just got mine from Broken Token via Amazon using rewards points!
 
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Adam Lucas
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I was going to wait until the Broken Token made an insert to go in the legendary box and order it then. I take it that's unlikely now?
 
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Brent Gerig
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Svengaard wrote:
I was going to wait until the Broken Token made an insert to go in the legendary box and order it then. I take it that's unlikely now?

The legendary box was designed the way it is specifically so that third-party inserts like the Broken Token insert still fit, and so that the limited numbered foil box lids from the Kickstarter still fit on. So I doubt they'll make another insert, since the one they have now still fits. Who knows what they'll do to accommodate The Wind Gambit and The Rise of Fenris.

Edit: To clarify, I meant that I doubt they'll redesign the existing insert to fit the expansions and increased height of the Legendary box.
 
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Josh Ward
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From what I understand, Broken Token will be releasing a game insert that will hold all of the Fenris and Wind Gambit stuff, and sit on top of the base insert in the Legendary Box. So if you buy the Legendary box now, and the "original" BT insert, it will all fit together as is, and you'll just have the Wind Gambit parts sitting on top of the board in the Legendary box.
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Nigel McNaughton
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Yes, BT have said they are waiting for (near) final Fenris components for designing the complimentary insert.
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Brent Gerig
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kredal wrote:
From what I understand, Broken Token will be releasing a game insert that will hold all of the Fenris and Wind Gambit stuff, and sit on top of the base insert in the Legendary Box. So if you buy the Legendary box now, and the "original" BT insert, it will all fit together as is, and you'll just have the Wind Gambit parts sitting on top of the board in the Legendary box.

BathTubNZ wrote:
Yes, BT have said they are waiting for (near) final Fenris components for designing the complimentary insert.

This is what I assumed they would do, since it just makes sense, but hadn't seen anything about it.
 
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Jamey Stegmaier
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I told Broken Token what's going in the final expansion in early December, so they're already preparing for the final insert module.
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Pete Miller
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jameystegmaier wrote:
"Would it be possible to sell RoF packaged in the Legendary Box (obvi, additional print run) to help offset some of the markup/shipping costs? If RoF costs ~$60 retail, could someone buy it for ~$85 retail with the Legendary Box? Would that work thru the distribution method? Or would it still be cost prohibitive?"

Thanks for your question. I explore this more in detail in a blog post I'll link below, but basically, for a variety of reasons I wouldn't do that. See here: https://stonemaiergames.com/one-box-to-rule-them-all/


The shipping is the biggest deal there, by far, and I understand the shipping from China is going to be based on volume.

I wouldn't be the audience for the RoF in the Legendary Box, as I have a Legendary Box already. But I know there are people who WOULD be the audience for a RoF in the Legendary Box. I wouldn't want (and wasn't suggesting) to put anything different in the boxes. The content (RoF) would be the same between the two.

I think most of the rest of the concerns are mitigated at this point. As you've announced this will be the final expansion to Scythe.

There could be a perception problem. There could be a shelf space issue at retailers. But I think those could be addressed with some communication. Stickers on the cellophane wrap on the box, etc. Some retailers will only stock RoF in the "normal" box.

In the end, I'm not privy to all the details of running SM Games, and am no expert in manufacturing, inventory or international shipping. I'm just a guy who wants people who hear about Scythe next month, or next year to be able to get all the things and be as happy about the game as I am.
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