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Subject: OGRE unit point costs rss

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MintyTheCat Cat
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Hello all,

it's been dabbled with for some time and I've finally gotten the majority of the pieces and parts together.

Drawing up army lists it struck me that I actually don't have all the point values for each unit type.

Can someone explain to me what a VP is and give me the point costs for the following please?

light tank
missile tank
GEV
infantry
heavy tank
super heavy tank
howitzer
mobile howitzer
Ogre mark III
Ogre mark V

Also, if someone could tell me where these unit costs are written, my manual doesn't include them in a table or anything - then that would be helpful.

Many thanks.
 
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David Rock

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You can find all of this on the last page of the Scenarios Book from the Designer's Edition (Ogre stuff is a little different: see below).

In general, all standard armor is 6VP. Standard is defined as "HVY, GEV, MSL" so anything in that class is 6VP. You should assume that unless told differently.

Differently is small or large in comparison: Things that cost half (LGEV, LT) are 3VP and things that cost double (SHVY, HWZ, etc) cost 12VP.

Normally, you will select based on "AU" values, not VP at a ratio of 1 AU = 6 VP.

so:
light tank - 3VP (.5AU)
missile tank - 6VP (1AU)
GEV - 6VP (1AU)
infantry - 2-per-squad, so a "standard" 3-INF is 6VP (i.e., roughly the same as a standard tank (1AU)
heavy tank - 6VP (1AU)
super heavy tank - 12VP (2AU)
howitzer - 12VP (2AU)
mobile howitzer - 12VP (2AU)

Ogres are a little different. VP aren't quite the same thing as points cost for purchasing (but it's very close). When comparing against trading out Armor, the following applies (found on the back page of the Designer's Edition Rulebook):

Ogre mark III - 17 AU (eg, 17 HVY tanks)
Ogre mark V - 25 AU (eg, 25 HVY tanks)

The actual VP for victory conditions is:
Ogre mark III - 100 VP
Ogre mark V - 150 VP

basically AU = VP/6, so feel free to use whatever method you want to do your force selection
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Keith Lewis
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Good breakdown.

Did anyone ever come up with a VP breakdown for the specialized units? Say BGG -zilla or the new Ogres; Vulcan or her drones, Fencer, the Mark VI or Dopplesolder even the Ogrethulhu. Laser towers or turrets. Even taking down a cruise missle? Just wondering
 
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David Rock

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Misplaced Buckeye wrote:
Good breakdown.

Did anyone ever come up with a VP breakdown for the specialized units? Say BGG -zilla or the new Ogres; Vulcan or her drones, Fencer, the Mark VI or Dopplesolder even the Ogrethulhu. Laser towers or turrets. Even taking down a cruise missle? Just wondering


Most of the Ogre info is also in the ODE rule/scenario books.
Fencer, Dopp and Mark VI are explicitly listed, Ninja and Vulcan are scenario-specific (but listed as "at least 25 AU").

CMs are explicitly listed as 12VP in the scenario book.

Lasers are also going to be scenario-specific because they aren't a static value. They would be mostly handled the same as buildings (because they are Structure Point(SP) buildings).

BGG-zilla and Ogrethulhu would have to be Scenario-specific, too, for similar reasons.
 
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David Rock

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MintyTheCat wrote:

Also, if someone could tell me where these unit costs are written, my manual doesn't include them in a table or anything - then that would be helpful.


Incidentally, what manual do you have? The stuff I referred to is found in Ogre Designer's Edition, but it's been in various forms over the years. I'm just curious which you are using.
 
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Stephan Beal
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Misplaced Buckeye wrote:
Good breakdown.

Did anyone ever come up with a VP breakdown for the specialized units? Say BGG -zilla or the new Ogres; Vulcan or her drones, Fencer, the Mark VI or Dopplesolder even the Ogrethulhu. Laser towers or turrets. Even taking down a cruise missle? Just wondering


"The [Henry] Cobb Formula" could calculate most of that. There's an older copy in The Ogre Book. i have no idea where the current version is.

Francisco "Cisco" Cestero came up with a far simpler formula which works for Ogres (producing values very close to the Cobb formula, but with about 10% of the effort) but not non-Ogre units:

http://wanderinghorse.net/gaming/ogre/byoo/ciscos.php

IIRC, Ogre Miniatures has the costs for the Mk VI, but i think (IIRC) they changed its design a bit for ODE.
 
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MintyTheCat Cat
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granitepenguin wrote:
MintyTheCat wrote:

Also, if someone could tell me where these unit costs are written, my manual doesn't include them in a table or anything - then that would be helpful.


Incidentally, what manual do you have? The stuff I referred to is found in Ogre Designer's Edition, but it's been in various forms over the years. I'm just curious which you are using.

I have a pocket edition from the 80s, the rules that were included in the Commodore 64 edition and I have the OGRE Book 2nd edition.

It may actually be that hidden away in the OGRE Book 2Ed it's in there somewhere. I need to get a good set of documents but to be honest I think that buying the 6Ed is a bit pricey for what it includes. I use proxy parts that I'm impressed with instead of the official parts.
 
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David Rock

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MintyTheCat wrote:
granitepenguin wrote:
MintyTheCat wrote:

Also, if someone could tell me where these unit costs are written, my manual doesn't include them in a table or anything - then that would be helpful.


Incidentally, what manual do you have? The stuff I referred to is found in Ogre Designer's Edition, but it's been in various forms over the years. I'm just curious which you are using.

I have a pocket edition from the 80s, the rules that were included in the Commodore 64 edition and I have the OGRE Book 2nd edition.

It may actually be that hidden away in the OGRE Book 2Ed it's in there somewhere. I need to get a good set of documents but to be honest I think that buying the 6Ed is a bit pricey for what it includes. I use proxy parts that I'm impressed with instead of the official parts.


That's what I figured. You can get all of what I mentioned for free on the Ogre Resources Page. In particular:
ODE Rulebook PDF (check out rule 13.03)
ODE Scenarios PDF (Check out the "GENERAL SETUP RULES AND VICTORY POINTS" section in the back).
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MintyTheCat Cat
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Many thank, Dave - that's exactly what I was looking for

I'll get it printed and set up a bound document for gaming 'at the table' - I prefer having everything on paper for quick reference

I've played a bit of OGRE but I haven't play-tested it enough to play with some friends as yet but this year will be the year that it changes I have all the rest of the bits on the way and I hope to put up some photos and discuss scenario ideas with you all.

Cheers.
 
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Keith Lewis
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Thanks David,
Missed that on the way through the rules...
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David Rock

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sgbeal wrote:

"The [Henry] Cobb Formula" could calculate most of that. There's an older copy in The Ogre Book. i have no idea where the current version is.


The Cobb Calculators can be found here:

For Ogres: http://www.hcobb.com/gev/ogrecalc.html
For Conventional Units: http://www.hcobb.com/gev/formcalc.html

It's also discussed in the 2nd Edition of the Ogre Book (not just the 1st Edition).

Incidentally, you can find links to a lot of Ogre tools on the SJG forums:
http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=109289
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MintyTheCat Cat
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The Cobb article is included in the OGRE Book 2Ed for info. It's a pretty useful book to have but it's kind of expensive to get hold of sadly
 
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David Rock

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MintyTheCat wrote:
The Cobb article is included in the OGRE Book 2Ed for info. It's a pretty useful book to have but it's kind of expensive to get hold of sadly


The PDF is only $14
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Stephan Beal
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MintyTheCat wrote:
The Cobb article is included in the OGRE Book 2Ed for info. It's a pretty useful book to have but it's kind of expensive to get hold of sadly


It is, as i mentioned above, in that book, but i remember reading somewhere (a decade or more ago) that the algorithm has since undergone revisions, thus the copy in The Ogre Book is (ostensibly) dated.
 
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MintyTheCat Cat
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sgbeal wrote:
MintyTheCat wrote:
The Cobb article is included in the OGRE Book 2Ed for info. It's a pretty useful book to have but it's kind of expensive to get hold of sadly


It is, as i mentioned above, in that book, but i remember reading somewhere (a decade or more ago) that the algorithm has since undergone revisions, thus the copy in The Ogre Book is (ostensibly) dated.

Sorry, I was a bit tired when I read your reply and didn't read that you'd mentioned the OGRE book - apologies.

Does the 2Ed have the 'most up to date' version of the Algo? Also, is it an 'Algorithm' or in actuality a formula?
 
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MintyTheCat Cat
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granitepenguin wrote:
MintyTheCat wrote:
The Cobb article is included in the OGRE Book 2Ed for info. It's a pretty useful book to have but it's kind of expensive to get hold of sadly


The PDF is only $14

Yes, but if you are like me then you 'want it on paper' - I don't trust these 'gadgets' More seriously though: it's handier for me to have it on paper so that I can refer to it with others when we play. I tend to print all PDFs out that I need and get them bound.
 
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Stephan Beal
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MintyTheCat wrote:
Does the 2Ed have the 'most up to date' version of the Algo? Also, is it an 'Algorithm' or in actuality a formula?


i assume that the algorithm/formula[1] has been tweaked in the nearly-20 years since the 2E book was released. i remember (possibly incorrectly) reading somewhere that it had been, but i don't have a source for that - it would have been a decade or more ago.

[1]= potayto/tomahto. As a lifelong software guy, "algorithm" is what i call it .
 
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