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Kingdom Death: Monster» Forums » Rules

Subject: Can you get two Shimmering Manes in one fight? rss

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Can you get a Shimmering Mane from a lion's hit location, archive it for the hide immediately, and then get a second one when the hit location cones up again?

And if you can, what's the latest in that sequence you can wait to archive the mane? Can you do it after the hit location is drawn? Can you wait until after you roll to crit?
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Alexander Maricich
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I dont have the rulebook in front of me currently, but i was under the impression that the text at the bottom of a resource card could be used at any time. I see no reason why you couldn't.

I definitely would say though if you do, you definitely shouldn't wait till after you roll a crit. that just seems like cheating. I would say the latest would be before you roll.

I wouldn't do it though on the regular. The odds of you critting on the same card multiple times is super low. Im guessing you are only asking though because it happened already lol.
 
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Yep, I just started a game where we are hide crazy. The first two lions both had ground fighting, lion cub, and dead monster, and we've gotten the mane four times in three fights now. Before the end of LY3 we had three sets of rawhide, though we are falling behind in bones and organs. Hopefully our first antelope fight will rectify that before the butcher comes to town!
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Nick Clinite
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I thought when you got a resource card, you don't archive it until a certain step of the Settlement phase?
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MICHAEL M
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Every rule FAQ I've read is that you get ONE shimmering mane per lion.

And thematically how are you ripping off his mane multiple times?
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sam newman

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islan wrote:
I thought when you got a resource card, you don't archive it until a certain step of the Settlement phase?


Pretty sure this is true, since you dont archive the resource until later it wouldnt be possible?
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Nick Wirtz
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Ha! Yeah, that strategy seems legal. It's a slight gamble, because you're taking hide out of your basic deck so if that's what you're going for, the odds shift, but that's solid.

Nice thinking.
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Jason Winterfeld
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islan wrote:
I thought when you got a resource card, you don't archive it until a certain step of the Settlement phase?


And

Cowtippa wrote:
Every rule FAQ I've read is that you get ONE shimmering mane per lion.

And thematically how are you ripping off his mane multiple times?


I believe the rules intended that you can't do this...

It might not be in the FAQ because it hasn't came up, or as stated resource cards get archived in the settlement phase. Plus thematically each white lion only has one shimmering mane so how are you ripping it off multiple times?

But it is your game play how you like.
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Nick Wirtz
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Not sure about the FAQs, but the SM card is very clear about archiving. I believe it would be errata if that move is illegal.
 
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spiralingcadaver wrote:
Not sure about the FAQs, but the SM card is very clear about archiving. I believe it would be errata if that move is illegal.


Ah, right, the conversion to 2 hide should be possible. I was thinking of the "Record & Archive" process.

You could always say it's just a /part/ of the mane.
 
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gorkel wrote:
islan wrote:
I thought when you got a resource card, you don't archive it until a certain step of the Settlement phase?


Pretty sure this is true, since you dont archive the resource until later it wouldnt be possible?

The main has the ability "Archive this to gain 2 basic hide resources."

The rules (p. 57)state "Some resources have special rules. They can be performed at any time and during any phase by the survivor holding the resource."

Thematically, since this is an impervious location, I'm guessing you are merely slicing off sections of the mane rather than ripping the whole thing out.

Ruleswise, I'm not seeing anything that disallows for the collection of a second mane. The wording "They can be performed at any time" doesn't discount the possibility that it could be done after the dice are rolled to see if a crit happens but before the deck is checked for the resource, even though it seems like a bit of a stretch.

I will probably continue to play it as needing to archive the mane before a crit attemtpt is made.
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Mark A
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I believe the monster resources are limited to what’s in the deck, so once a card is drawn, it can’t be drawn again during that showdown.

This happened once in my game as well. We scored crits on the mane twice, but we just played it where we only got one shimmering mane. It felt unthematic and like we would be cheating otherwise.
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Dying Tickles
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Mant72 wrote:
I believe the monster resources are limited to what’s in the deck, so once a card is drawn, it can’t be drawn again during that showdown.

This happened once in my game as well. We scored crits on the mane twice, but we just played it where we only got one shimmering mane. It felt unthematic and like we would be cheating otherwise.

When you archive a card, it goes back in its deck, so if he's using the card's bottom text to archive it to get two basic hide resources, the card is back in the deck and able to be taken again.
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Mark A
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DyingTickles wrote:
Mant72 wrote:
I believe the monster resources are limited to what’s in the deck, so once a card is drawn, it can’t be drawn again during that showdown.

This happened once in my game as well. We scored crits on the mane twice, but we just played it where we only got one shimmering mane. It felt unthematic and like we would be cheating otherwise.

When you archive a card, it goes back in its deck, so if he's using the card's bottom text to archive it to get two basic hide resources, the card is back in the deck and able to be taken again.


Yeah, I know. It just seems like a loop hole to me.
 
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Joe Martineau
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Maybe I'll just stay home and play KDM.
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Definitely seems like a loop hole to me, but so does Infinite Kick.

The rules appear to support it. It's a feature, not a bug, etc.
 
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Mark A
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From the FAQ: “A survivor cannot gain a card during the Hunt or Showdown if there are no copies left in its deck. If a resource a survivor is carrying is archived during those phases, it is returned back to its respective deck, and can be drawn again that phase.”

So, it seems this can legally be done, but I don’t know if I will play it this way.
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sam newman

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well the only way to get it is a crit on the hl card. If you manage to get 2 crits on the same hl card dont see why not. Nice way to get hide but at the same time not really worth using founding stone for.
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Jason Winterfeld
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gorkel wrote:
well the only way to get it is a crit on the hl card. If you manage to get 2 crits on the same hl card dont see why not. Nice way to get hide but at the same time not really worth using founding stone for.


This is not true... if you crit the location you can get one. Then if the Original poster does what he is saying you would get two hide and put it back in the lion deck. Then when you kill the lion you get the rest of the lion resources so you have a chance to get it again.
 
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Ben Turner
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Whilst agreeing with what's been said... no, you can't get two Shimmering Manes in one fight.

You can get two hides and then one shimmering mane using the strategy listed above, but you are still only coming home with a single Shimmering Mane.
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Sum
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Phantomwhale wrote:
Whilst agreeing with what's been said... no, you can't get two Shimmering Manes in one fight.

You can get two hides and then one shimmering mane using the strategy listed above, but you are still only coming home with a single Shimmering Mane.


Well, I mean, you can. Two manes were acquired in the fight. Nobody said anything about having two manes at the same time.
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Nick Wirtz
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There's never any reason to have 2 manes. They're used for:
hide (already covered)
fishing hide out of the deck (effectively the same in this case)
that terrible accessory that no one would take
a unique item, that's fairly corner case
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Chester
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Can you archive it AFTER you roll the critical on that card? To me, you check instantaneously if its in the deck at the instant the die roll occurs. I think you could choose to archive it BEFORE the roll, but I think you already checked the status of the deck the instant the 2nd crit roll occurs, and there was no mane there.

Is there some reason to believe you can 'rewind' and act like you had already archived it, then pull if from the deck?

(although if you know you don't want to make the piece of armor from the mane, you should probably just archive it immediately for 2 hide to avoid getting screwed. Or the moment you draw that hit location again, but before you roll)
 
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Nick Clinite
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cornjob wrote:
Can you archive it AFTER you roll the critical on that card? To me, you check instantaneously if its in the deck at the instant the die roll occurs.


jindianajonz wrote:
The rules (p. 57)state "Some resources have special rules. They can be performed at any time and during any phase by the survivor holding the resource."
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Chester
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That isn’t answering the question. The question really is: does making the roll query the deck instantaneously? In which case you would have to decide to archive it prior to rolling.
 
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J Glassner
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This certainly seems to not be the intention of that card's ability in regards to cashing it in during the showdown for a second shot at it, but if we are playing by wording technicalities, it seems possible. One thing to note though- the wording on "archive" is actually this:

Archive: "Remove this card from play and return it to the game box. Unless it is recorded into settlement storage or the survivors record sheet, any archived card is permanently lost."

Now that 2nd sentence isn't necessarily a dealbreaker in terms of wording so long as you don't deem "permanently lost" to mean that that specific card (shimmering mane) is permanently lost from that specific lion's resource deck. At least is can be open to discussion/interpretation/argument.

But, that 1st sentence is extremely clear- one must remove the card from play and return it to the game box. Most people I know keep the monster resource deck on the table for convenience during the showdown phase. If that deck is on the table instead of in the box, then it seems clear that you cannot put that shimmering mane card back in the resource deck as that card will stay in the box until you reset the resource deck (place the deck back in the box after the showdown).

So, I would say that if you are going to do this (which again in my opinion likely isn't the intent of that card), then you must play with the inconvenience of keeping the resource deck in the box during the entirety of the showdown, such that when you archive the mane, you could place it back in the box conveniently within the resource deck in the box. This may be just enough of an annoyance to dissuade going this route. Just my thoughts.
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