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Subject: Lifeform VS Nemesis rss

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Asaf Hamtzany
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So Nemesis kickstarter will start in 2 days, and Lifeform in the end of Feb.
Both games sit on the same slot theme-wise (Sci-Fi survival horror, with similarities to Alien franchise).

I know quite a lot about Nemesis, but very little about Lifeform.
Can someone please provide more info about Lifeform?

I don't think I have room for both games in my collection, and right now Nemesis will win that spot with a technical victory - its kickstarter is earlier and I know how the game plays (and it does look good).
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Mark Chaplin
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Just to clarify some differences between the games, as far as I can tell.
NOTE: I haven't played Nemesis (it looks terrific), and while these two games are both survival horror, they seem like chalk and cheese.


Lifeform:

1) only ever has one alien threat - controlled by one player (Nemesis has many alien miniatures), who has a separate deck of action cards, and a "control board" that tracks the alien lifeform's growing hostility, and its unique proficiencies.

2) has multiple crew deaths, but there is never any player elimination (Nemesis appears to have elimination).

3) features a crew of ill-equipped mining personnel with glitchy, under-powered gear and no way to kill the alien (Nemesis has power-armour wearing marines with plasma rifles, etc).

4) is not semi-coop (Nemesis seems to feature backstabbing).

5) has a labyrinthine starship gameboard featuring 80-odd chambers (Nemesis has approx 20), to simulate the stalk/chase through a large mining vessel.

6) doesn't track "hit points" or wounds for either the crew nor the alien - the lifeform is almost invincible, and the crew almost always die horribly when attacked.

7) is diceless (Nemesis has dice).

8) features bluffing - by the alien (Nemesis has no bluffing).

9) has a self-destruct timer driven by the crew player's actions.

10) will have a solo expansion available during the KS, but the base game plays 2-4 (solo requires 3 different decks of cards, a sprinkling of tokens, and a separate motion tracker gameboard).


Hope this helps!
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Jan Schröder

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argh, bad news... sounds like both are interesting..
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David Lesouef
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An other difference, the cost?
If there is no miniature.
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Little Al

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Man I had the same thought driving in today. I agree with your conclusion and every point you make.

I feel like Nemesis is Aliens, where as Lifeform is Dead Space/Event Horizon. I really prefer the latter, but the core game of Nemesis looks so tight and well produced. Plus the solo mode on Lifeform has me concerned.

Can anyone expand on the solo mode options for lifeform. I fear it is jst going to be an artificial tack on to get numbers during the KS.

Also the price will be key as if Lifeform can really undercut Nemesis I am going to go that route over minis. (i'm drowning in minis)
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Mark Chaplin
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Quote:
I feel like Nemesis is Aliens, where as Lifeform is Dead Space/Event Horizon

You'd be closer if you were thinking ALIEN - Dead Space has multiple enemies.


Quote:
Can anyone expand on the solo mode options for lifeform. I fear it is just going to be an artificial tack on to get numbers during the KS

Your fears are unfounded, my friend.
The solo system is essentially a separate game, but still exploiting the main gameboard and the crew action card deck.

The alien's AI is controlled by interactions with the three card decks (one for each deck of the mining starship), and tracked on a motion tracker board - that also records the crewmember's correlative responses (in solo mode, the player is the final survivor).

The three card decks that drive this experience, each detail a unique micro-event that have 3-4 possible outcomes, depending on the action cards you have in hand (and wish to use).

You have to manage your hand of cards, tokens, equipment, and time - while avoiding the alien/driving it off with a flamethrower, etc, and getting enough gear to evac the starship in the escape shuttle - all before the mining vessel explodes.


FYI, the solo pack is not content that was ripped from the main game to fool unwary KS backers [insert evil laugh]. It is separate, from a cost perspective - which gives backers the option to buy. It is distinct, because I've never seen a game (maybe others have) where so much extra effort has gone into making player engagement at each player-count, sharply different (the 2-player game also has some major divergences).


Best regards!



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Jan Schröder

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this is getting even worse...shake

(looking forward to your kickstarter...)
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Asaf Hamtzany
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Thanks for the quick response Mark.
As I said both games are very appealing to me, each with some advantages and some disadvantages.

But the biggest issue is that while I know how Nemesis plays (The rulebook is available and there are multiple videos) all I know about Lifeform is summed up in those bulltes you posted.

Can you please publish the rulebook? Share a gameplay video? Show us the map? etc.

Is the map modular or the same every game? What is the same between games and what is different?
Heck, if the games are sufficiently different I might back both!

I'm trying to fish information about it seems Nemesis's campgain will be over before Lifeform's even start, so if you hold this information until the campgain start it'll just be too late.

I hope I'm not coming off as aggressive or demanding. I have Lifeform in my wish list for the past 2 years, I learned about Nemesis in the last month - I WANT to back Lifeform, but I want to do that based on concrete information.
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Mark Chaplin
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All the information you could ever want will be available at the start (or near start) of the KS campaign - like most projects.

If that's too late for you, my apologies!


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David Etherton
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I'm in for both! Given the lack of miniatures on Lifeform there's a good chance it will end up being in my hands before Nemesis, and will probably be easier on my pocketbook as well.

To be fair, this theme of game has interested me for a very long time. I own The Awful Green Things From Outer Space, Intruder, and Invasive Species.

-Dave
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Tristan Hall
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It's looking like Lifeform is to the Alien movie, as Nemesis is to Aliens.
Two very different beasts, both awesome. cool
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Pako FuNkyBoY
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I don't think so. Nemesis is not about killing aliens, its about survive and escape. Indeed it has combat, but its not a killthemall type of game.
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Mark Chaplin
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funkyboy wrote:
I don't think so. Nemesis is not about killing aliens, its about survive and escape. Indeed it has combat, but its not a killthemall type of game.

Exactly the same as ALIENS...


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Justin Boehm
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Yugblad wrote:
Quote:
I feel like Nemesis is Aliens, where as Lifeform is Dead Space/Event Horizon

You'd be closer if you were thinking ALIEN - Dead Space has multiple enemies.


Quote:
Can anyone expand on the solo mode options for lifeform. I fear it is just going to be an artificial tack on to get numbers during the KS

Your fears are unfounded, my friend.
The solo system is essentially a separate game, but still exploiting the main gameboard and the crew action card deck.

The alien's AI is controlled by interactions with the three card decks (one for each deck of the mining starship), and tracked on a motion tracker board - that also records the crewmember's correlative responses (in solo mode, the player is the final survivor).

The three card decks that drive this experience, each detail a unique micro-event that have 3-4 possible outcomes, depending on the action cards you have in hand (and wish to use).

You have to manage your hand of cards, tokens, equipment, and time - while avoiding the alien/driving it off with a flamethrower, etc, and getting enough gear to evac the starship in the escape shuttle - all before the mining vessel explodes.


FYI, the solo pack is not content that was ripped from the main game to fool unwary KS backers [insert evil laugh]. It is separate, from a cost perspective - which gives backers the option to buy. It is distinct, because I've never seen a game (maybe others have) where so much extra effort has gone into making player engagement at each player-count, sharply different (the 2-player game also has some major divergences).


Best regards!




This is interesting, I'm hoping that with this AI deck that can be used in solo, there might be a way to play 2-4 in full co-op and have the AI still automate the Lifeform. One expansion that gives both those options as an add-on would be pretty seeet.
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Mark Chaplin
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Gambit001 wrote:
Yugblad wrote:
Quote:
I feel like Nemesis is Aliens, where as Lifeform is Dead Space/Event Horizon

You'd be closer if you were thinking ALIEN - Dead Space has multiple enemies.


Quote:
Can anyone expand on the solo mode options for lifeform. I fear it is just going to be an artificial tack on to get numbers during the KS

Your fears are unfounded, my friend.
The solo system is essentially a separate game, but still exploiting the main gameboard and the crew action card deck.

The alien's AI is controlled by interactions with the three card decks (one for each deck of the mining starship), and tracked on a motion tracker board - that also records the crewmember's correlative responses (in solo mode, the player is the final survivor).

The three card decks that drive this experience, each detail a unique micro-event that have 3-4 possible outcomes, depending on the action cards you have in hand (and wish to use).

You have to manage your hand of cards, tokens, equipment, and time - while avoiding the alien/driving it off with a flamethrower, etc, and getting enough gear to evac the starship in the escape shuttle - all before the mining vessel explodes.


FYI, the solo pack is not content that was ripped from the main game to fool unwary KS backers [insert evil laugh]. It is separate, from a cost perspective - which gives backers the option to buy. It is distinct, because I've never seen a game (maybe others have) where so much extra effort has gone into making player engagement at each player-count, sharply different (the 2-player game also has some major divergences).


Best regards!




This is interesting, I'm hoping that with this AI deck that can be used in solo, there might be a way to play 2-4 in full co-op and have the AI still automate the Lifeform. One expansion that gives both those options as an add-on would be pretty seeet.

From a personal time-saving perspective, I would have absolutely loved it if the solo would scale up, but it can't.
The solo has become (for me) my current fave mode to play the game - that's for many reasons, but mostly due to the solo design being a retrofit for the main game - so I've found it a rewarding puzzle experience.
The solo expansion is a completely separate adventure, if you will.

That all said, I'm working on 2-4P (maybe 5 if she'll take it, captain!) full coop, that will require less additional components than the solo - the lifeform AI running off of a 'motion tracker'-like device side-board (similar to solo, but less sophisticated). No promises, because this may not be running in a fashion I'm happy with before the KS start.



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Scottie Mick
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Yugblad wrote:

That all said, I'm working on 2-4P (maybe 5 if she'll take it, captain!) full coop, that will require less additional components than the solo - the lifeform AI running off of a 'motion tracker'-like device side-board (similar to solo, but less sophisticated). No promises, because this may not be running in a fashion I'm happy with before the KS start.




Hope this happens, because then you'd please all types of gamers and the KS will really take off!
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Birkai Qutuz
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From a solo perspective, I got the feeling that solitaire was an afterthought for Nemesis. If it turns out to be legitimately fun, I'm interested but for now, I'm not getting a confident vibe. This game seems to be making a dedicated effort towards creating a good solo version. The minis, are really scary and cool in Nemesis, however, the addition of dice takes it down a notch in my eyes. One too many games in my collection revolves around dice and I, for one, would like to have less dice-based fickleness in my life.
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patrick m
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I do not understand the choice in nemesis to put the crew against each other, they should make a common front to kill the aliens. it's not like reality.
I follow lifeform in order to simulate a game as soon as possible, I'm not enthusiastic about nemesis's rules.
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Christopher Baughman

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Nemesis is better practice for the office.
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Nick Hughes
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Paprike wrote:
iturbe77 wrote:

I do not understand the choice in nemesis to put the crew against each other, they should make a common front to kill the aliens. it's not like reality.
I follow lifeform in order to simulate a game as soon as possible, I'm not enthusiastic about nemesis's rules.
Lifeform is more likely better practice for what to do when you this scenario does happen to you.

Lie to yourself all you want but when the number of suits and spots on the shuttle get low it's every cat for itself.
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Terence Burnett
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Hmm, saying the Alien(s) in Nemesis has no bluffing is not strictly true I believe. The Aliens can retreat into the network (disappear from board and heal up) and it’s not clear where to they may move or which types move.

Regardless I’m waiting on Lifeform rulebook so I can gain further info on it.
 
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Mark Chaplin
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Spagetti69 wrote:
Hmm, saying the Alien(s) in Nemesis has no bluffing is not strictly true I believe. The Aliens can retreat into the network (disappear from board and heal up) and it’s not clear where to they may move or which types move.

Regardless I’m waiting on Lifeform rulebook so I can gain further info on it.

That doesn't sound like a bluff.
Unless one player can deceive the other players with this move...


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Terence Burnett
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Yugblad wrote:
Spagetti69 wrote:
Hmm, saying the Alien(s) in Nemesis has no bluffing is not strictly true I believe. The Aliens can retreat into the network (disappear from board and heal up) and it’s not clear where to they may move or which types move.

Regardless I’m waiting on Lifeform rulebook so I can gain further info on it.

That doesn't sound like a bluff.
Unless one player can deceive the other players with this move...



Ok the term bluff I am at a stretch with then. Unpredictable movement is what I was aiming for which is also in life form via bluffing.

Bluffing is between players in Lifeform, not the Alien, I stand corrected.
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Mark Chaplin
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Spagetti69 wrote:
Yugblad wrote:
Spagetti69 wrote:
Hmm, saying the Alien(s) in Nemesis has no bluffing is not strictly true I believe. The Aliens can retreat into the network (disappear from board and heal up) and it’s not clear where to they may move or which types move.

Regardless I’m waiting on Lifeform rulebook so I can gain further info on it.

That doesn't sound like a bluff.
Unless one player can deceive the other players with this move...



Ok the term bluff I am at a stretch with then. Unpredictable movement is what I was aiming for which is also in life form via bluffing.

Bluffing is between players in Lifeform, not the Alien, I stand corrected.

Unpredictable threat movement is fun.
But even more exciting is getting a bluff over on your friends!





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Nick Hughes
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You can tell this by Tristan's barely suppressed laughter in the Demo Videos
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