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Subject: Enough additions rss

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Randolph Bookman
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I'm happy the team has already made their millons so quickly and I like more as much as the next guy but...
Instead adding more and more, I really do wish they would focus on what they already have:
1. Fixes for downtime between players.
2. reported balance issues. Can't speak to this as I haven't played it.
3. lowering the cost of the game
4. free shipping for backers
5. Fully painted miniatures included in ks edition.
 
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Nielson Jugalbot
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shieldwolf wrote:
I'm happy the team has already made their millons so quickly and I like more as much as the next guy but...
Instead adding more and more, I really do wish they would focus on what they already have:
1. Fixes for downtime between players.
2. reported balance issues. Can't speak to this as I haven't played it.
3. lowering the cost of the game
4. free shipping for backers
5. Fully painted miniatures included in ks edition.


These two requests aren't even remotely feasible.

4. They're shipping straight from Poland and offer 2-wave shipping. They'd practically give you the game for free in this case.

5. Fully painted is an even more unreasonable request. They've already increased the price for sundrop due to the high cost they misjudged from their last campaign (Lords of Hellas) and they're plannign to apply some blood effects on the figs as well. If you check out their fully painted LoH game, its triple the price of the pledge.

Please be realistic with your own requests.
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Brad Miller
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You miss the script all KS projects must follow...

Until the extras prevent timely delivery.

laugh
 
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Jonathan Politis
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And no one in there right mind would ever do

#3. lowering the cost of the game.

There are so many unknowns between now and final delivery, and you've already agreed to the current price, besides an unmeasurable goodwill, what do they gain?

Adding more content, increasing the longevity of the game is WAY more important.
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Randolph Bookman
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jpolitis wrote:
And no one in there right mind would ever do

#3. lowering the cost of the game.

There are so many unknowns between now and final delivery, and you've already agreed to the current price, besides an unmeasurable goodwill, what do they gain?

Adding more content, increasing the longevity of the game is WAY more important.



1 and 2 are the most important to me and should be to anyone backing the game.

Yes fully painted figures are expensive but other companies mass produce them at a reasonable price and I doubt they they are selling more than $3 million copies on games.

I'm not saying I think it's going to happen but lots of KS games give discount prices to those who back. Is it unreasonable to make the game cheaper for backers? I'd rather pay 60 for the game than 100 with an expansion that I may or may not use/want/like.

I didn't say I expect this to happen I just think instead of them scrambling to throw more crap at the wall and see what sticks, Aftermath seems like a half baked idea at this point. I rather pay for a refined game rather than one that just keeps adding more.

Also, expansions don't guarantee longevity. If a game sucks all the expansions in the world aren't going to make you want to play it more. I don't expect this game to be bad, I'm just pointing it out.
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Sam D
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I find this desire for extra in Kickstarter very strange (okay I’ve only backed 4 projects).

I back Base in what it is showing, not what I might get if more people spend money.

I also feel stretch goals that add content to the game mean one of two things.
1) the core game is a hollow shell and will well
2) they expected the game to make that much money and was going to include it anyway.

One Kickstarter I backed (Helios lights) had no stretch goals, just a cool project and a need for capital.

So after all my rambling I believe I am saying, no more stretch goals please, just get the game right.
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ArtSchool
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You also missed "world peace".

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Mike
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For $120+ there better be quite a bit more in this game to be value for the money. Either in quality upgrades if that's possible or in extra content.
Maybe Cmon and Monolith games have me spoiled.
To me at the moment without the unlocked Voidseeders it looks like a $60-$70 game. Some of the extra SG stuff looks unnecessary, like the card holders and the hourglass (whats that for?). The terrain add-on definately doesn't look worth $35, half that at best. After the Voidseeder SGs then yeah I can see the value up around $100. This is because I don't know how many of these SG cards there are. 2? 15? 100?
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Pierre G
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hourglass in a hourglass-less games are super important... when you have slow thinking players ^^
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Vince De Zutter
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Mike B Canada wrote:
Maybe Cmon and Monolith games have me spoiled.


Conan was great value money-wise but not too good gameplay-wise, especially since it took months for people to even be able to use the KS minis in a scenario. Mythic Battles: Pantheon was a wallet killer, but I do consider it to be worth it so you have me there. CMON games are notoriously expensive with loads of unnecessary add-ons. Even HATE is a 120$ game where they don't have too much miniatures (for CMON standards) and they're adding in new game modes due to complaints of the gameplay being too thin. Expect those modes to be tacked on last minute and not very well thought out. Massive Darkness has a horrible campaign system, only minor monster variety but loads of plastic. It was a $135 game.

There's more to "value for money" than plastic. I'll agree some of the SG stuff is entirely unnecessary, but the plastic SG's they're unlocking seem to actually add something to the game (new ruleset) apart from just "play this game with this plastic dude now!"
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Mike
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Vinceness wrote:
Mike B Canada wrote:
Maybe Cmon and Monolith games have me spoiled.


There's more to "value for money" than plastic. I'll agree some of the SG stuff is entirely unnecessary, but the plastic SG's they're unlocking seem to actually add something to the game (new ruleset) apart from just "play this game with this plastic dude now!"


I agree there's some really nice SGs in there, playing as an intruder, alternate game board, co-op rules and story campaign. Potentially big gameplay additions there.

I thought or hoped there was a purpose to the hourglass like maybe something was timed like killing an intruder in less than x seconds before it escapes or performing surgery by rolling higher than x number on the die 6 times before the timer runs out when something pops out of someones chest.
 
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Vince De Zutter
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Mike B Canada wrote:
I thought or hoped there was a purpose to the hourglass like maybe something was timed like killing an intruder in less than x seconds before it escapes or performing surgery by rolling higher than x number on the die 6 times before the timer runs out when something pops out of someones chest.


It's probably nothing more than a "downtime limiter". If someone's taking too long to do their turn, give them an hourglass to get on with it. Hourglass runs out, he skips a turn.

That's how I'm using it, anyway.
 
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Jason Miller
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shieldwolf wrote:
I'm happy the team has already made their millons so quickly and I like more as much as the next guy but...
Instead adding more and more, I really do wish they would focus on what they already have:
1. Fixes for downtime between players.
2. reported balance issues. Can't speak to this as I haven't played it.
3. lowering the cost of the game
4. free shipping for backers
5. Fully painted miniatures included in ks edition.


1. They've playtested their game way more than you have: they know the downtime becomes small upon repeated plays.

2. See #1

3. You pretty clearly don't understand the costs involved in created board games.

4. AYFKM?

5. This is already an option that you can pay for. It will be in the Pledge Manager.
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David Werner
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shieldwolf wrote:
1 and 2 are the most important to me and should be to anyone backing the game.


I'm 100% on board with you for #1 and #2.

#3 put a confused look on my face, but I was like, all right... I guess...

In all honesty, #4 and #5 made me wonder if you've inhaled a lot of swamp gas lately.

I admit, I don't have knowledge of every tabletop KS project ever, so maybe you've got precedent for considering those reasonable items, but I have no idea what you're talking about. Painting miniatures is an expensive practice, and anything under $5 a figure is considered cheap. I haven't seen any KS offer fully painted miniatures as included with a standard pledge, and given the pricing in the miniature-painting market I don't know why any business would. Cerebria was a $500,000 KS and offered pre-painted miniatures (10 in the Origin box with stretch goals) as a $25 add-on. That's $2.50 per mini. That was considered a deal by many. Heroes of Land, Air, and Sea had a very similar arrangement just to paint the Hero and Mercenary miniatures, not even the entire thing.

Nemesis is offering the Sundrop effect, which I understand to be not full-blown pre-painting but a proprietary mass-production process that adds color to the minis, for $42. Considering there are already almost 40 minis, not including future stretch goals or the terrain add-on, that means the price will wind up being less than $1 per mini. That seems reasonable strictly from a cost perspective, not even considering the perceived added value to a consumer who enjoys painted minis. Also, for what it's worth, I've seen comments that full pre-painting will be added later as an optional add-on.

Is there some KS that passed me by which offered fully pre-painted for free?

As for shipping, I've definitely never seen any company ship a box of this size and not charge for shipping. Especially not from Europe. I'm really confused what your thought process is on this. Can you clarify?

Is it possible that you're just not happy with the pricing of the game in general? If so, that's fair, but attempting to justify your displeasure as a universal condemnation of the value of the game is a stretch, in my opinion. Particularly if you're going to use #'s 3-5 as your main argument.
 
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Kevin John
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6. I also want a pony.
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Tobias Wattman Wahlberg
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Concidering how alot of kickstarters land themselves in a limbo/logistical nightmare hell from miscalculating on shipping and having to start other projects and use those funds to finish the previous games made I can't see nothing wrong with giving away the game for almost free.

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Ryan M
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Personally, I would prefer to see KS projects stop wasting time and money giving a bunch of typically-not-well-thought-out extra crap to whiny backers who think this is an online store, and use those profits toward becoming a real business that doesn't need to always run to KS to fund projects.
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Raziel Chromatic
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And yet, if you read the development updates, focusing on quality instead of quantity is exactly what Awaken Realms is trying to do.
A lot of the OP's points have already been addressed by the developers.

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Randolph Bookman
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What they are offering is not fully painted and it's only for the base creatures unless I'm missing something does not include the heroes or expansion aliens.

The point I'm trying to make is I would rather have a better game than a game with more stuff tacked on. But I'm in the minority enjoy the free comic-book gameplay mechanic.
 
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David Werner
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shieldwolf wrote:

What they are offering is not fully painted and it's only for the base creatures unless I'm missing something does not include the heroes or expansion aliens.

The point I'm trying to make is I would rather have a better game than a game with more stuff tacked on. But I'm in the minority enjoy the free comic-book gameplay mechanic.


We know, I explained what Sundrop was in my post. It's more of a shading/coloring "effect" than full pre-painting. But the campaign says "ALL miniatures" so yes, it's all miniatures. Like I said, that's less than $1 per mini. That's a good deal.

Yeah we know what your point is. Several people addressed your point by telling you that some of what you expect is reasonable, some of it is already being addressed, and some of it is unreasonable. You basically haven't responded to anyone else's point and just repeated yourself here. Not exactly a debate or conversation.

Also, I think the comic is cool. I dig the artist they got for it and enjoyed Above and Below/Near and Far so I think I would enjoy this too.
 
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Seamus O'Toole
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shieldwolf wrote:

What they are offering is not fully painted and it's only for the base creatures unless I'm missing something does not include the heroes or expansion aliens.

Did you read the faq?

Fully painted will be available in the pledge manager.

The price is not listed, expect it to be very expensive, because that kind of service typically is very expensive. It would not make much sense to include it in the KS itself, as then they would have to charge even more to cover the percentage Kickstarter takes.

Edit: On the comic book, it's not something I have much interest in myself, but I think it is an indication that they are happy with the game and expansions they had planned, and don't want to create half baked content which would only slow down the games publication just because the KS was more successful than they anticipated. Instead, they are making a purely cosmetic addition which won't effect the game balance, but will help to increase the immersion for some people.
Seems like a good idea to me.
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Bram Kok
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tuathail wrote:
shieldwolf wrote:

What they are offering is not fully painted and it's only for the base creatures unless I'm missing something does not include the heroes or expansion aliens.

Did you read the faq?

Fully painted will be available in the pledge manager.

The price is not listed, expect it to be very expensive, because that kind of service typically is very expensive. It would not make much sense to include it in the KS itself, as then they would have to charge even more to cover the percentage Kickstarter takes.

Edit: On the comic book, it's not something I have much interest in myself, but I think it is an indication that they are happy with the game and expansions they had planned, and don't want to create half baked content which would only slow down the games publication just because the KS was more successful than they anticipated. Instead, they are making a purely cosmetic addition which won't effect the game balance, but will help to increase the immersion for some people.
Seems like a good idea to me.
But the comic book will contain choices, so chances are it isn't purely cosmetic. (Although it will probably be for the most part.)
 
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Jason
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Looking past playhtough videos, the downtime isn't totally obnoxious as some ppl are making it out to be.

But I will say this, there needs to be an improvement fairness on First player Turn rotation.
Current Rules right now have Player 1 always going first but it is totally unfair for the last player cause the card use like Taser and Motivation get the most effiency from Player 1.

The simpliest solution is a First Player Turn on rotation where it'll cycle at everyone to start the round.
Another is the Terraforming Mars method where player does 2 sets of actions max and moves on to the next.
 
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Jayson Deare and Sammy G
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We have backed the game and we tend to agree about the addons. Seeing more addons than stretch goals which is the opposite with CMON and Mythic the rest comes later! The game looks cool but with the shipping and the focus on add ons we are not sure that we will be keeping the pledge may just decided to get the retail version as the shipping is also quite high and concerned about customs. In any case we will play the game just not sure what version yet!
 
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Alexander Festini
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WookieeLove wrote:

#3 put a confused look on my face, but I was like, all right... I guess...


It's not as unreasonable as it sounds when you consider the main reason stretch goals are a thing. It's not because of a profit margin per copy (that would be silly, since SGs are included with each copy and could ergo be done independent from the number of backers).

Purely made up numbers for simplicity:

The manufacturer tells you making your game will cost you $1000 in fixed costs (tooling, etc.) and $10 per copy.

So,
1 unit: $1010 per game
10 units: $110 per game
100 units: $20 per game
1000 units: $11 per game

You decide $20 seems fair, so your campaign goal is set to the equivalent of 100 copies: $2000

You also have lots of ideas for things you'd like to add, but they are impossible at $20 and you doubt your game will still attract enough backers at $30 or even $40. But if you get 1000 backers, you now have $9 more per game (or $9000 in total). Now you have three options:

-keep the extra cash and use it for Blackjack and... hiring fees
-invest the saved money into better components or more stuff (aka stretch goals)
-reduce the price of the game

Very long post just to say "yes, of course they could make it cheaper instead of adding more stuff".

There are only two problems: a) KS doesn't let you change pledge levels after the fact and b) as a creator that's reasonable passionate about your project, you will want to make it bigger and better and put in all the cool ideas that were just a pipe dream when you had to worry about getting even just 100 backers.

It also means that, yes, not only can SGs be something that was already designed and planned, it's actually quite likely. I'd even very much hope so, because just throwing in lots of half-baked ideas is the best way to ruin a game by tacking on too much, ruining the balance and/or making it a cluttered mess.
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