Recommend
1 
 Thumb up
 Hide
18 Posts

Rising Sun» Forums » Rules

Subject: Komainu rules question rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
marijn cromheecke
Belgium
Klerken
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
The Komainu counts as a shinto figure. In addition to being able to put him at a shrine, does that mean i can in theory use him to replace a shinto in a province from someone else using a betray action when he is in my reserve. Does he still counts as a monster, meaning I can use him to replace monsters using betray? Is he affected by upgrade cards that effect shinto figures?

If the answer is yes, does that also mean that if my komainu is on the board in a province he can be replaced by a shinto by someone else using the betray mandate?

Thx
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Christopher Capone
United States
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
Avatar
My understanding of the rules is that the Betray mandate only allows you to replace 'like' figures NOT powers. So. If a shinto priest is on the map you can only replace him with another Shinto. However. The Komainu is a monster figure, so it can only replace another Monster figure.

However, I am curious about the Betray mandate for the shinto's power. If the Komainu replaces a monster on the map, can it automatically go worship or does this not count as a 'Recruit' thereby negating the effects? Same for a Shinto replacing a Shinto (which is less likely)... will a Shinto be allowed to go to the shrines if it is replacing an opponent Shinto on the map during a Betray mandate?

I hope this helps,

Lee
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Christopher Capone
United States
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
Avatar
Okay,

I just read the rules and a Betray mandate does NOT count for a 'summon'. For example, you cannot replace the Oni of Skulls with the Komainu and then immediately send the Komainu to worship. It must stay in the map area and it will count as one force. Same goes for replacing Shinto. Shinto cannot be betrayed if they are already in the temple heavens. But If they are on the map (like a Bushi) then you can replace one with your own. It cannot be sent to the temples but ALSO must remain on the map and will count as one force

Lee
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mr. Octavius
Canada
Chilliwack
BC
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Interesting. What is the literal text on Komainu? If it says Komainu counts as a shinto or is treated as a shinto then I'd say technically yes, it can replace shinto on the map with Betray and be replaced by shinto in return. (Barring official FAQ.)
If it says Komainu 'acts' like a shinto then no, they cannot replace each other.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
marijn cromheecke
Belgium
Klerken
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Text says: counts as a shinto
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Oden Dee
Australia
flag msg tools
mb
Because Yurei gains benefits from Daimyo upgrades... I would say yes that Komainu is replaceable by Shinto.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mr. Octavius
Canada
Chilliwack
BC
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
trivium wrote:
Text says: counts as a shinto


In that case yes, Komainu is a monster and a shinto at all times. Komainu can replace monsters or shinto with Betray actions, and can be replaced by them as well. Any season card that affects shinto or monsters includes Komainu.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Z
United States
Virginia
flag msg tools
Avatar
InspectorLeeFC wrote:
My understanding of the rules is that the Betray mandate only allows you to replace 'like' figures NOT powers. So. If a shinto priest is on the map you can only replace him with another Shinto. However. The Komainu is a monster figure, so it can only replace another Monster figure.


This is my interpretation of the rule and I think it makes the most sense competitively. I'm gonna go with this until told otherwise in a FAQ of some sort.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ernesto
msg tools
I would simply use him to replace other monsters only. It "counts as a Shinto" does not mean it is a Shinto figure. Also, the mandate states like figures, this means powers are not taken into effect.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael R

Heidelberg
msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
MrSlade wrote:
I would simply use him to replace other monsters only. It "counts as a Shinto" does not mean it is a Shinto figure. Also, the mandate states like figures, this means powers are not taken into effect.


Yeah, that's how I interpret the ability as well. Count it as a Shinto for all effects, but it's not a Shinto figure (i.e. you cannot put a white ring on it ).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
PK Levine
United States
Rossville
GA
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
It's a fuzzy enough situation that I think we definitely need a FAQ about it. Does CMON have a dedicated place to ask rules questions?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mr. Octavius
Canada
Chilliwack
BC
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
MrSlade wrote:
I would simply use him to replace other monsters only. It "counts as a Shinto" does not mean it is a Shinto figure. Also, the mandate states like figures, this means powers are not taken into effect.


The rules for Betray say I can only replace a shinto figure with a shinto figure. This Komainu figure counts as a shinto, meaning Komainu is a shinto figure and therefore can replace shinto.

It's all a semantic argument that doesn't really matter much, because how often will people have shinto on the map, and want to replace a shinto on the map with Komainu instead of a shinto of their own? Play it however your group considers to be logical until an FAQ clarifies it.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Casey Smith
Switzerland
Portland
Oregon
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Maebon wrote:
MrSlade wrote:
I would simply use him to replace other monsters only. It "counts as a Shinto" does not mean it is a Shinto figure. Also, the mandate states like figures, this means powers are not taken into effect.


It's all a semantic argument that doesn't really matter much, because how often will people have shinto on the map,


I agree probably not very much, but the Piety card in the mountain set, lets you gain honor and 3 vp for every war province. That seems like a good reason to have a few Shinto on the board.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Private Blinky
msg tools
InspectorLeeFC wrote:
My understanding of the rules is that the Betray mandate only allows you to replace 'like' figures NOT powers. So. If a shinto priest is on the map you can only replace him with another Shinto. However. The Komainu is a monster figure, so it can only replace another Monster figure.


I gotta agree with this with perspective, after reading the details on Betray in the RS rulebook:

Rising Sun rulebook, Betray Action, pg 18 wrote:

When playing Betray, the player chooses up to 2 figures on the Map, belonging to 2 different players, and immediately replaces them with figures of the same type that they have in their own Reserve.
...
Note that a Monster in Reserve can be used to replace another Monster. Even though they have different names, they are the same type of figure.
...
The player cannot replace a figure if they don’t have a figure in reserve of the same type.


In the base game you have 4 primary types of units: Bushi, Shinto, Daimyo, and Monsters. Some units inherits and gains benifits from another unit type, but it does not alter its primary type classification. I'd definetly agree Komainu can't replace/be replaced by Shinto units during Betray.


1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matt Roberts
United States
Missouri
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Yes, I would say it can be replaced by and replace a Shinto. The Komainu is both figure types, a monster and a Shinto. Just like the Yurei is both a monster and a Daimyo. Each has the strengths and weaknesses of both types of figures.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Henry Clark
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
AlkalynSyn wrote:
Yes, I would say it can be replaced by and replace a Shinto. The Komainu is both figure types, a monster and a Shinto. Just like the Yurei is both a monster and a Daimyo. Each has the strengths and weaknesses of both types of figures.


I would agree. It would need to be treated as if it were both types in order for its rules to make sense, so I’d allow it to replace a Shinto during betray (or vice versa)
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ken Staples
United States
Florida
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
We played it that yes it could replace/bee replaced by Shinto. Also, IIRC, Blood Rage had similar questions and they were allowed. Yes, this isn't Blood Rage, but there's heritage there. Looking forward to official FAQ.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eric L.H.
United States
San Leandro
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Rising Sun FAQ 1.0: http://resources.cmon.com/Rising_Sun_FAQ_1-0.pdf

KOMAINU
Q. Does the Komainu also count as a Shinto for the purpose of Betrayal?
A. Yes, for all intents and purposes the Komainu counts as both a Monster and a Shinto. So it can replace Monsters or Shinto during a Betray Mandate, or likewise be replaced by them while on the Map.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.