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Subject: Can I target Daikaiju at Betray? rss

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Emiko Kishi
Japan
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When I play Betray Mandate, Can I target Daikaiju in the ocean?
If I can, will my monster places in the ocean, or any one Province?
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宗葆 陳
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Emilion wrote:
When I play Betray Mandate, Can I target Daikaiju in the ocean?
If I can, will my monster places in the ocean, or any one Province?


I think it will not work because it will be drowned.
 
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Casey Smith
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I say your replacement monster goes in the ocean, but if you don’t move him by the war phase you can’t use him.

Edit; I don’t claim this is the official resolution, but that’s how I would handle it at the game table.
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Selka
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I don't think that you can replace it when he is in the ocean.
 
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'Shinto figures on the Shrines are not affected by Betrayal (unlike any on the Map).'

I don't think it counts as 'on the map' when it is in the ocean, so I too think it is immune to betray.
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Mr. Octavius
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At most, you could replace it, but then there are no routes from the ocean to any province. So the monster would be stuck there unable to participate in any battles for the rest of the game.
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Casey Smith
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LordBartholomeus wrote:
'Shinto figures on the Shrines are not affected by Betrayal (unlike any on the Map).'

I don't think it counts as 'on the map' when it is in the ocean, so I too think it is immune to betray.


I would consider shrines Holy Grounds, thus Sanctuaries, and why they are immune to Betray. The Ocean not so much.

I would consider sea routes on the map for what it's worth

Edit, Im yet proved a dumb dumb again. I thought it started on a shipping route. Yeah that makes sense now, you can betray itl but itll cost you one of your monsters, and itll be stuck.
 
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Oden Dee
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It's a very expensive piece.
Is its ability worth +2 coin over a River Dragon.
Not being able to be betrayed could be why it is so expensive.

I would say no can't be betrayed for now, makes him cooler
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Eric Matthews
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Ya this is def one I'd like to see an official answer on. Both immunity and being able to essentially sacrifice a cheaper monster to replace Daikaiju are interesting.

 
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Mr. Octavius
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Thinking about it more, you shouldn't be able to use Betray to place a figure where it is normally not allowed to go. Theme wise Betray is the figure revealing it was a spy and showing it's true allegiance. In the case of Daikaiju, it would be revealing it was actually the Oni of Skulls working for the Turtle clan the entire time. Well how did you get in the ocean Oni of Skulls?
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Bob Bovard
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Maebon wrote:
Well how did you get in the ocean Oni of Skulls?


I'd like to hear the rest of that conversation please...
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Pietro Pomella
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Maebon wrote:
Thinking about it more, you shouldn't be able to use Betray to place a figure where it is normally not allowed to go. Theme wise Betray is the figure revealing it was a spy and showing it's true allegiance. In the case of Daikaiju, it would be revealing it was actually the Oni of Skulls working for the Turtle clan the entire time. Well how did you get in the ocean Oni of Skulls?


Something something lizard costume something something paddles.
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Henry Clark
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I think it does need a ruling, but really the only options seem to be:

1) Can’t be Betrayed

2) Can be Betrayed, but the monster you replace it with is ‘stuck’ in the ocean and has no way to move from there.
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Mr. Octavius
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Bobonthecob wrote:
Maebon wrote:
Well how did you get in the ocean Oni of Skulls?


I'd like to hear the rest of that conversation please...


The Fox Clan Daimyo stands on the northern shore of Oshu, smiling as he watches Daikaiju wander deep in the ocean.

Fox Clan Daimyo: "Yes, The Turtle Clan will never see this coming."

Meanwhile, deep the ocean, a turtle with a cylinder on it's back swims towards Daikaiju. There's a hole in Daikaiju's chest and the turtle swims inside, it follows the hole to a chamber containing the Oni of Skulls operating a befuddlement of switches and levers. The Oni of Skulls sees the turtle and takes the cylinder off it's back. Tiny in his massive hands, he finally works it open and withdraws the note. "Now is the time." Is all it says, with the symbol of the Turtle Clan underneath. The Oni of Skulls grins to himself, grabs his iron club, and smashes a button in front of himself.

Back on shore, the Fox Clan Daimyo's expression slowly turns to shock as Daikaiju starts to vibrate and tarts to fall apart, until all that is left is the Oni of Skulls treading water.

Fox Clan Daimyo: "Impossible!"

The Oni lets out a low, deep chuckle that rumbles the earth.

Oni of Skulls: "Foolish little Fox, we Oni are the masters of deception. I was the Oni of Skulls all along!"

On the opposing shore in Hokkaido the Turtle Clan Daimyo lets out a rich, rolling laugh. Suddenly, he stops, looking confused.

Turtle Clan Daimyo: "How did you get in the ocean Oni of Skulls?"

Oni of Skulls: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
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marco cenni
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from the rulebook:

Map:"The heart of the board shows the Map of Japan, which is where most of the conflicts in the game play out." [pag.5]

Province:"The Map is divided into 8 different Provinces delineated by thick, colored lines. The Provinces may be occupied by Figures and Strongholds. [pag.5]

When playing Betray, the player chooses up to 2 figures on the Map [pag. 18]

Imho the Daikaiju isn't on the Map because Ocean isn't Map
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Bob Bovard
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Maebon wrote:
Bobonthecob wrote:
Maebon wrote:
Well how did you get in the ocean Oni of Skulls?


I'd like to hear the rest of that conversation please...


The Fox Clan Daimyo stands on the northern shore of Oshu, smiling as he watches Daikaiju wander deep in the ocean.

Fox Clan Daimyo: "Yes, The Turtle Clan will never see this coming."

Meanwhile, deep the ocean, a turtle with a cylinder on it's back swims towards Daikaiju. There's a hole in Daikaiju's chest and the turtle swims inside, it follows the hole to a chamber containing the Oni of Skulls operating a befuddlement of switches and levers. The Oni of Skulls sees the turtle and takes the cylinder off it's back. Tiny in his massive hands, he finally works it open and withdraws the note. "Now is the time." Is all it says, with the symbol of the Turtle Clan underneath. The Oni of Skulls grins to himself, grabs his iron club, and smashes a button in front of himself.

Back on shore, the Fox Clan Daimyo's expression slowly turns to shock as Daikaiju starts to vibrate and tarts to fall apart, until all that is left is the Oni of Skulls treading water.

Fox Clan Daimyo: "Impossible!"

The Oni lets out a low, deep chuckle that rumbles the earth.

Oni of Skulls: "Foolish little Fox, we Oni are the masters of deception. I was the Oni of Skulls all along!"

On the opposing shore in Hokkaido the Turtle Clan Daimyo lets out a rich, rolling laugh. Suddenly, he stops, looking confused.

Turtle Clan Daimyo: "How did you get in the ocean Oni of Skulls?"

Oni of Skulls: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ


Well played... You deserves some GG for that. Also, there's more where that came from if you can do a version like a 1970's sitcom where Oni of Skulls Mum is the one that asks the question... eh?
 
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Sean Badger
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marko980 wrote:
from the rulebook:

Map:"The heart of the board shows the Map of Japan, which is where most of the conflicts in the game play out." [pag.5]

Province:"The Map is divided into 8 different Provinces delineated by thick, colored lines. The Provinces may be occupied by Figures and Strongholds. [pag.5]

When playing Betray, the player chooses up to 2 figures on the Map [pag. 18]

Imho the Daikaiju isn't on the Map because Ocean isn't Map


I'm going with this logic. "The Map" = the 8 provinces.
 
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Mr. Octavius
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Bobonthecob wrote:
Well played... You deserves some GG for that. Also, there's more where that came from if you can do a version like a 1970's sitcom where Oni of Skulls Mum is the one that asks the question... eh?


I think you overestimate my abilities, and now I no longer have my punch-line, but I'll give it a shot:

The Mother of Onis stands on the beach, hands on her hips, tapping her foot in annoyance. In the distance, a village collapses from the rumbling caused by her foot.

Mother of Onis: "Oni of Skulls, I know it's you. Come out of there this instant!"

In the ocean, a clearly fake cardboard cutout of Daikaiju can be seen.

Daikaiju: (In a poorly faked voice) "Ummm... No Oni of Skulls here. Only me, Daikaiju!"

*Audience laughs*

Mother of Oni: "Now Oni of Skulls!"

Audience: 'ooooooooo'

Oni of Skulls pulls down the cardboard mask in annoyance.

Oni of Skulls: "MOOOOOOOM! You're going to ruin everything!"

Mother of Oni: "Now just what are you doing Oni of Skulls?"

Oni of Skulls: "Mean old man Fox Clan Daimyo wouldn't let Daikaiju go to the fair in Kyoto, so he said if I pretended to be him so he could go he'd give me his '74 Dave Winfield Rookie card!"

Mother of Oni: "Need I remind you that we serve the Turtle Clan? Get out of there this instant and go crush some Fox Bushi!"

Oni of Skulls pouts, then starts looking around in confusion.

Mother of Oni: "Don't you make that face at me young man! What's the problem?"

Oni of Skulls: "I... don't know how to get out..."

*Audience laughs*

Mother of Oni: "Well how did you get in the ocean, Oni of Skulls?"

Oni of Skulls: "...Daikaiju carried me in here."

Mother of Oni: "Well then I guess you'll have to wait for him to come back to carry you out, I think he usually comes around in the summer. And while you're waiting you can think about how you brought dishonor to the Turtle clan!"

As the Mother of Oni turns to walk away a smile creeps across her lips.

Mother of Oni: "That's my boy."
 
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Tom Vander Velden
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Nope he can't be targeted while he is on the ocean because it is not part of the map. From Official FAQ. Hurray for official answers!
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