Recommend
3 
 Thumb up
 Hide
30 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

Terraforming Mars» Forums » General

Subject: New player about to get started this weekend rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Paul Cuthbert
Scotland
Dunfermline
Fife
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
Hi everyone

Im looking to play on my own before launching the game with family.

I've watched some playthroughs already for solo.

Just got a quick question..

Would you experienced players suggest I attempt a solo playthrough to begin with or try to play as 2 players?

Cheers
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bryan Thunkd
United States
Florence
MA
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
papafuzzylugs wrote:
Would you experienced players suggest I attempt a solo playthrough to begin with or try to play as 2 players?
The solo game has a different strategy and feel than the multiplayer game. I'd probably recommend playing as 2 player so that your experience will line up with what you'll see in your family game.

Also, check out this:
The rule that everyone is getting wrong a.k.a. Read this before your first play!
12 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Keith Griffin
United States
Thibodaux
LA
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I am actually in the same situation as you, so I am no expert at this game.I am hoping to get it to the table next week and I may just clear off my game of A Distant Plain to do it! I bought TM purely for the solo aspect from the great reviews it gets for this mode. IMO if I am going to teach a game I solo it first. There is little difference between the solo and multiplayer from what I see (could be wrong about that) so learning first solo will help you at least explain the majority of the game. It isn't such a complex game but has very deep strategy so playing a few solo rounds before teaching shouldn't give you a big advantage over a new player.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Örjan Almén
Sweden
Karlstad
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
A good thread to read is also the official FAQ/Errata: Official FAQ / rules clarifications
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
RyuSora
Brazil
Sao Paulo
Brazil
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Avoid playing a 5p game
Dont use draft
Dont use corporation era cards

I would suggest this for your first game. And reading the FAQ and stuff.

A solo game is nice so you can interact with the cards and clear any question you may have about those.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bryan Thunkd
United States
Florence
MA
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
grif66642 wrote:
There is little difference between the solo and multiplayer from what I see (could be wrong about that) so learning first solo will help you at least explain the majority of the game. It isn't such a complex game but has very deep strategy so playing a few solo rounds before teaching shouldn't give you a big advantage over a new player.
The big differences between the two are:

1) drafting in the research phase - I recommend drafting as it makes the game much more interesting. Obviously playing solo drafting doesn't happen.

2) attack cards - in the solo game cards that affect other players just aren't interesting. And you won't have any played against you

3) board placements - You won't be competiting for board spots. You won't have the opportunity to build cities next to clumps of greeneries that other players placed. (Actually it rarely makes a lot of sense to build cities in the solo game at all. You're usually struggling too much for the resources to be worth what will, at least usually, only get you points.)

4) milestones and awards - You won't be shooting for these goals. Even if they existed you likely wouldn't. And even if they existed, you wouldn't be racing for them.

5) Having the global parameters/game clock rushed - Cards which have parameter requirements, especially the "can't play after X hits Y" are fairly straight forward in solo, while they can be much trickier when multiple people are pushing the global parameters. And of course there's no race for the bonus spots on the GP's. The pace of the game will generally be different, as how fast the game ends depends on how hard people are pushing those parameters. And while you might have planned on a strategy that puts out a lot of oceans, everyone else might be pushing oceans as well, and wreck your plans. These are things you never worry about in solo.

Strategically, in the solo mode you won't be buying many cards, you'll rely on standard projects more and you'll be pushing as hard as you can to increase the global parameters. Many cards just aren't worth playing in the solo mode as the game is so tight. In multi-player the game will generally go longer and you'll have more time and incentive to build up an engine, buy cards, and plan for a longer game. There's no deadline, so you're not rushing to max everything out like you are in the solo game.

In short, the way to win the solo game isn't much like the way to win a multiplayer game and you'll ignore a lot of things that you'd pay attention to in a multi-player game.
9 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Keith Griffin
United States
Thibodaux
LA
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
That's good to know Bryan. I haven't delved into it yet but I watched a few multiplayer games on YouTube but not the solo game.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James Dunn
msg tools
Avatar
I actually think the Corp. cards are a good start cause they give a new player something to shoot for or certain type of cards to shoot for.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
karel pepiku
Czech Republic
flag msg tools
ryusora wrote:
Avoid playing a 5p game
Dont use draft
Dont use corporation era cards

I would suggest this for your first game. And reading the FAQ and stuff.

A solo game is nice so you can interact with the cards and clear any question you may have about those.


My first game ever, with players who had played 1-2 times before:
5 players
Draft
Corporate era

I had not seen any playthrough before, I was taught the rules just before the game. I ended up 3rd, 3 points behind the winner.
Therefore I would say it is perfectly fine to include all cards and draft if the other players aren't new to gaming. Why would reading the text on CE cards be more difficult than on non-CE cards? And people get used to drafting and CE cards.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
AJ Cooper
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
I would definitely avoid drafting with mostly beginners, even if they are seasoned gamers. It accomplishes essentially nothing in that setting - how can they draft wisely if they don't know any of the cards? Which in turn makes the time added even worse.

CE cards and zero starting productions are fine for most beginners who don't mind a longish first game. You should expect 3 hours and maybe more.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mi Myma
United States
Fountain Valley
California
flag msg tools
Why is there no Word Games Forum or Subdomain?
badge
There should be a Word Games Subdomain, or at least a Word Games Forum!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
When you say you're a "new player", do you mean new to Euro games in general? I see you've got a 5-year veteran badge and 10th anniversary badge. If you've played Puerto Rico, Race for the Galaxy, Dominion, Agricola, or pretty much any other games like that, then you're ready to play Terraforming Mars. Jump in with both feet! Go ahead and use the Corporate Era cards. Go ahead and play with as many players are available. You don't need to take baby steps.

One benefit of playing with more players is efficiency - more players learn the game in one session, rather than having to learn one-by-one.

Don't use drafting for your first game, though, since you're not familiar with the specific cards.

If you've never played Eurogames before, then maybe you might want to skip the Corporate Era cards and play solo or two-player. But only maybe. This isn't rocket science, despite going to Mars.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Paul Cuthbert
Scotland
Dunfermline
Fife
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
Thanks all and good luck Keith.

i was tempted to start with beginner Corp to get to grips with game first, but not sure if I'll lose my way trying to play as 2 players.

I think I might just bite the bullet and try the solo

Can't wait to get started
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Paul Cuthbert
Scotland
Dunfermline
Fife
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
Thanks Phil, you're right, I've got a few euro's in my collection (too many according to my wife) so I should be ok.

Don't enjoy too big a brain burn to be truthful...hope this might be just about right
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bill Collins
United States
Connecticut
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
papafuzzylugs wrote:
Thanks all and good luck Keith.

i was tempted to start with beginner Corp to get to grips with game first, but not sure if I'll lose my way trying to play as 2 players.

I think I might just bite the bullet and try the solo

Can't wait to get started


Playing solo will help you learn:

1) the map
2) the cards
3) choosing a Corp to work with your starting hand
4) how to handle production and start building an engine

It will not teach multiplayer concepts well such as:

1) Awards and Milestones
2) Timing on good placement to get bonus production increases from a Parameter instead of another player
3) Good use of VP accumulators because in solo play they generally detract from the goal of getting it done in 14 generations.

So definitely play solo. It’s an enjoyable game on its own. And please realize that two player will be different. It’s a great game. Welcome!
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
karel pepiku
Czech Republic
flag msg tools
Here is why I think drafting is good even for first gamers - provided they will continue playing TM in the future.

1. Some people say that you cannot choose cards during draft wisely, if you do not know them in advance. My counter-question is - does that mean that you can pick cards wisely without drafting, if do not know the cards in advance? I don't think so. So this anti-drafting argument is invalid. If you are short of time, then I would avoid not only drafting, but even entire Corporate era.
2. With drafting you'll get to see more cards, so in your next games you won't be surprised by some nasty cards or jovian points, which - without draft - you might have had no idea they had ever existed because you did not see them.
3. Since you'll see more cards, it is more likely that more people can build a functioning engine or follow a viable strategy and so other people can learn from that.

P.S. If you plan to train for multiplayer games by solo playing, then pick a corporation inherently good at terraforming, like Ecoline or Helion, because their strategy in solo will very likely be most similar to their strategy in multiplayer. Definitely more likely than for corporations like Saturn Systems.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mi Myma
United States
Fountain Valley
California
flag msg tools
Why is there no Word Games Forum or Subdomain?
badge
There should be a Word Games Subdomain, or at least a Word Games Forum!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
As my friend Al says, the first time is a learning game - it does not count against your permanent record.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Wim van Gruisen
Netherlands
Den Bosch
Unspecified
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmb
A solo game, even if you don't finish it, gives you a feel for the mechanics of the game. And if you don't know the rules well enough, it will have you bump into them, and learn them better.

karelpepiku wrote:
Here is why I think drafting is good even for first gamers - provided they will continue playing TM in the future.

1. Some people say that you cannot choose cards during draft wisely, if you do not know them in advance. My counter-question is - does that mean that you can pick cards wisely without drafting, if do not know the cards in advance?

Maybe not. But it will take far less time to only choose between four cards on which ones you wish to keep, instead of having to pick one card from those four cards, then another card from three more, than another card - and then have to decide which ones you wish to keep of the four that you drew.

karelpepiku wrote:
If you are short of time, then I would avoid not only drafting, but even entire Corporate era.

It's not about being short of time, it's about bringing down AP during the game. And about drafting getting a mess if one player holds up the draft by being unable to choose between the first four cards, and then the next three.
I'll gladly play a four hour game of TM with experienced players and no downtime (we just did that the other day, with Venus Next included, but without the solar phase), but don't like a three hour game where one of those hours is filled with three people fiddling their thumbs, waiting for the fourth player to decide on which card to choose.
But that aside, leaving out the Corporate Era cards would be good in a game with newbies anyway; the game without them focuses on the base strategies of filling the three parameters. The base game is good as a learning game (and still fun), focusing on the core and not drawing attention away with too many alternative point generating mechanisms.
Now, it depends on the capabilities of new players - and the goals of the other people round the table - whether you'd want to do that. But if your goal is to show new people the game, get them to learn the ropes, so that they'll wish to play the game more often (and so that you can bring it to the table more often), it's certainly an idea to play it without corporate era cards and without drafting.

karelpepiku wrote:

2. With drafting you'll get to see more cards, so in your next games you won't be surprised by some nasty cards or jovian points, which - without draft - you might have had no idea they had ever existed because you did not see them.

With or without drafting, the same number of cards enter the game each round - four per player. Without drafting, players can keep more of their initial four cards in hand. Usually, players have a tendency to not discard those nasty cards and Jovian multipliers, so you'll see them being played anyway.
And even if not, there are lots of cards in the game and you cannot hope to see, and remember, them all on your first few plays anyway. Which is good, as that means that you can still find new things in the game after the first few plays.
But if you don't like that, and you think that players need to know what kinds of cards are in the game, refer them to the comprehensive card list that is posted here on BGG. Or give a new player a chance to look through the deck before playing the game. That gives them a far better idea of the cards than a draft.

karelpepiku wrote:
3. Since you'll see more cards, it is more likely that more people can build a functioning engine or follow a viable strategy and so other people can learn from that.

They can only do that if they have experience with the game. Drafting in a game with new players puts them at more of a disadvantage than just keeping the four cards you were dealt with.

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Simon
Sweden
Malmö
flag msg tools
Paul Cuthbert,

It depends on you and your party.

If you and your party are regular board games players, do NOT exclude the Corp Era cards.

However, if you guys feel uncertain and want a playthrough to feel the game, you can do 3 things:

- exclude corp era
- skip drafting
- star with +1 production to all

The game time will be cut down to an hour.
Few quick hints to new players:
- blue Active cards are played ONLY ONCE per generation
- don't buy more than 5-6 cards from the starting 10. (next generation you will get only 20-22 money)
- total tags count https://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/137795/tm-tag-count-and-f... can provide an instant overview for how many cards you can use the secondary currencies (steel, uranium).
- if a project tells you to decrease a production, but you are at 0, then you can't play that project (thus starting with +1 productions is extra forgiving to the newbies)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bill Collins
United States
Connecticut
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
I agree actually that following the learning game as outlined in the rules, then playing the Corporate Era game, and then adding drafting is the easiest way to learn the game. Drafting adds time. And when you don’t know what the card synergies are, why add decisions that will be more meaningful after you know how the game plays?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
karel pepiku
Czech Republic
flag msg tools
Whymme wrote:
karelpepiku wrote:
Here is why I think drafting is good even for first gamers - provided they will continue playing TM in the future.

1. Some people say that you cannot choose cards during draft wisely, if you do not know them in advance. My counter-question is - does that mean that you can pick cards wisely without drafting, if do not know the cards in advance?

Maybe not. But it will take far less time to only choose between four cards on which ones you wish to keep, instead of having to pick one card from those four cards, then another card from three more, than another card - and then have to decide which ones you wish to keep of the four that you drew.

Indeed it will take less time without drafting in that particular first game. But I see drafting like time-saving investment for next games, no matter if they play with or without draft then. Because they might remember more cards, because they have seen them, so they do not read them carefully again.

Whymme wrote:
karelpepiku wrote:
If you are short of time, then I would avoid not only drafting, but even entire Corporate era.

It's not about being short of time, it's about bringing down AP during the game. And about drafting getting a mess if one player holds up the draft by being unable to choose between the first four cards, and then the next three.
I'll gladly play a four hour game of TM with experienced players and no downtime (we just did that the other day, with Venus Next included, but without the solar phase), but don't like a three hour game where one of those hours is filled with three people fiddling their thumbs, waiting for the fourth player to decide on which card to choose.


Alright, but this is your opinion about drafting in general, not about drafting in someone's first game. Discussions why do/don't draft are already abundant here, so we do not need to expand them in this thread.

Whymme wrote:
karelpepiku wrote:

2. With drafting you'll get to see more cards, so in your next games you won't be surprised by some nasty cards or jovian points, which - without draft - you might have had no idea they had ever existed because you did not see them.

With or without drafting, the same number of cards enter the game each round - four per player. Without drafting, players can keep more of their initial four cards in hand. Usually, players have a tendency to not discard those nasty cards and Jovian multipliers, so you'll see them being played anyway.

First, yes, of course the number of cards that enter the game is the same. But the number of cards that you will see is different. Without drafting, it is 4 cards plus, say, two cards per opponent (those that they would play), that is 4 + 2N, where N is the number of opponents. With drafting, it is 4+3+2+1=10 during draft plus N (usually the first card picked is played by your opponents) plus N-1 (say that even the second card drafted is played, but you have already seen one of those in your first four cards), that is 10 + N + N -1, i.e. 9 + 2N cards. So on average, with drafting you see 5 more cards each generation, that is some ~50 cards in the whole game. And even new people do discard some of the nasty cards and Jovian multipliers, at least in my experience.

Are those 50 extra cards worth the time? I don't know, it is up to everybody. But in my second game, I really appreciated I had knew more cards because of drafting in my first game. But this is just my opinion, I am not saying it is the best for everybody.

Whymme wrote:
But if you don't like that, and you think that players need to know what kinds of cards are in the game, refer them to the comprehensive card list that is posted here on BGG. Or give a new player a chance to look through the deck before playing the game. That gives them a far better idea of the cards than a draft.

This is valid, but not helpful for everybody. It's like a learning process. For myself, I learn the cards (any cards) most efficiently when I am focused on those cards and that is when playing. Some people prefer reading the card list, like reading a book. And some might want to see the actual cards in advance.

Whymme wrote:
karelpepiku wrote:
3. Since you'll see more cards, it is more likely that more people can build a functioning engine or follow a viable strategy and so other people can learn from that.

They can only do that if they have experience with the game. Drafting in a game with new players puts them at more of a disadvantage than just keeping the four cards you were dealt with.

I believe that if players are regular euro gamers or experienced in other games with drafting, they can handle drafting in TM to some level. Even new players are capable of following a strategy. You do not need to know the game in advance to recognize that Ecoline is good at placing greeneries. And to recognize that if you are Ecoline and see Deimos Down in draft, you should not pass this card further. Or to know that if you are Phobolog or Saturn, you should look for titanium production, etc.

I am not saying drafting in first game is best, I am just giving arguments why it might be good to consider if the group wants to play the game more than once.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
karel pepiku
Czech Republic
flag msg tools
To add to my previous post. Once, I was teaching the game three new people and we played without drafing, with corporate era. One of the players fell asleep because of constant flow of "crap" cards in the research phase. I was in a similar position, played my first card in gen5 or gen6 (yes, you read correct, my first card in gen5 or 6!), but at least I knew that in such a case I should invest into standard projects. And one of the new players, playing for Tharsis, was getting insane combos - he definitely could recognize that certain cards go well together and how to follow a city-based strategy. I think it is crystal-clear who won - Tharsis.

So non-drafing can lead to these extreme cases. It is not common, but it might happen. And not all new players are dummies.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Marc Espie
msg tools
mb
papafuzzylugs wrote:
Hi everyone

Im looking to play on my own before launching the game with family.

I've watched some playthroughs already for solo.

Just got a quick question..

Would you experienced players suggest I attempt a solo playthrough to begin with or try to play as 2 players?

Cheers


Beware that solo and mp are two different games.

You're not focusing on points in solo games, you have less money. There are cards you'll be able to play because you can always diminish your opponent's production that you won't be able to play in multi if the opponent doesn't have a production.

I love both variations, but playing with one will give you a feel of the other style, as long as you're aware you don't play them the same way.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Wim van Gruisen
Netherlands
Den Bosch
Unspecified
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmb
Not interested right now in getting into an elaborate discussion, but I need to give one comment:
karelpepiku wrote:

Alright, but this is your opinion about drafting in general, not about drafting in someone's first game.

No, it isn’t. A first-time player will need a lot more time to evaluate the cards he gets than an experienced player, and that will slow down the draft disproportionally.
It is not only because a player sees more cards in a draft, but also because he has to make clearer choices. Without draft, if two cards look interesting, a player can always decide to buy both. In draft, he has to choose between them.
And yes, that goes forcexperienced players as well, but IMX the decision process doesn’t take as long with them as with newbies. Experienced players can assess better which cards first their strategy best.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Paul Cuthbert
Scotland
Dunfermline
Fife
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
Got my first play today and started with the solo variant.

The 2 Corps I dealt were tharsis and the one UN one

I chose tharsis and failed..boy that was tough in solo play. I later watched another of Nerd E's videos where he also failed and said if you want a challenge in solo pick that one....just my luck ha, ha

Great game, really enjoyed it and definitely now understand the differences between multiplayer and solo.

Hope to try another solo tonight or may actually play as 2 players

So pleased I picked this up, well worth the money
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
karel pepiku
Czech Republic
flag msg tools
Whymme wrote:
Not interested right now in getting into an elaborate discussion, but I need to give one comment:
karelpepiku wrote:

Alright, but this is your opinion about drafting in general, not about drafting in someone's first game.

No, it isn’t. A first-time player will need a lot more time to evaluate the cards he gets than an experienced player, and that will slow down the draft disproportionally.


Right, but the first post looks like everybody in their family will be new to the game, so there is no disproportion.
Anyway, when I play with newbies, I am always patient during draft. If you think it is wasting of time, play it your way, I am not forcing you to play draft.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.