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Subject: Confusing text about losing bonuses and abilities rss

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A L D A R O N
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I'm confused about what the following text (from the Compendium) means; it seem contradictory:



Lost and not lost? What am I missing?
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Angelus Seniores
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Re: Confusing text about loosing bonuses and abilities
Say one of the options contains 3 infantry units.
You lose 1-2 of those units causing the option to reach its breaking point and is turned over; the remaining surviving unit(s) is not lost and can continue to fight.

same for gear, orders and character traits
For example if the option gives an additional order you dont immediately lose that order which may still be placed on a unit to activate this turn.
only when calculating your nr of available orders for next turn would you count one less order.

There may be other options that do not fall in these categories and would effectively be lost when the option is turned over, though i cant give an example at the moment.
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Re: Confusing text about loosing bonuses and abilities
Angelsenior wrote:
Say one of the options contains 3 infantry units.
You lose 1-2 of those units causing the option to reach its breaking point and is turned over; the remaining surviving unit(s) is not lost and can continue to fight.

Indeed: no mention of units in the confusing text.

Angelsenior wrote:
same for gear, orders and character traits
For example if the option gives an additional order you dont immediately lose that order which may still be placed on a unit to activate this turn.
only when calculating your nr of available orders for next turn would you count one less order.

There may be other options that do not fall in these categories and would effectively be lost when the option is turned over, though i cant give an example at the moment.

So really nothing like the text in the rules: it's trying to explain the delay in loosing Orders (and nothing else)? Is that it?
 
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Roger Bartels
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Re: Confusing text about loosing bonuses and abilities
The things that are lost are bonuses such as extra order tokens awarded by the recruitment tile. Things such as units and gear that you used to fill the recruitment tile are not lost by the flipping of the recruitment tile.
 
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Re: Confusing text about loosing bonuses and abilities
Lemonpips wrote:
The things that are lost are bonuses such as extra order tokens awarded by the recruitment tile. Things such as units and gear that you used to fill the recruitment tile are not lost by the flipping of the recruitment tile.

Yes, the rules say that clearly just before this text. This seems to be trying to say something else. Perhaps the last sentence should just be deleted?
 
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Roger Bartels
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Re: Confusing text about loosing bonuses and abilities
Aldaron wrote:
Lemonpips wrote:
The things that are lost are bonuses such as extra order tokens awarded by the recruitment tile. Things such as units and gear that you used to fill the recruitment tile are not lost by the flipping of the recruitment tile.

Yes, the rules say that clearly just before this text. This seems to be trying to say something else. Perhaps the last sentence should just be deleted?


Within the vocabulary of the rulebook, I see nothing wrong with the last sentence. Although I agree that DPG can really f up clarity, they seem quite clear in this instance.
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Bart De Vuyst
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Re: Confusing text about loosing bonuses and abilities
Page 34 of the Compendium has a nice example on 'breaking points' and what you 'lose' when this breaking point is reached.

Like said above, when a recruitment option reached its breaking point, it is flipped. Next you lose the bonus this recruitment option brought (the extra star/order/thing on top of the leftmost recruitment slot in the example below). The orders are only lost at the end of the supply phase.

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Re: Confusing text about loosing bonuses and abilities
Lemonpips wrote:
Within the vocabulary of the rulebook, I see nothing wrong with the last sentence.

Well in rules writing, unnecessary is always "wrong", especially when it's less clear than the same thing previously (in this case just) stated. If all this is saying is that you don't loose the Recruitment Options attached to a Recruitment Tile when the Recruitment Tile is flipped, it's not helpful.
 
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Roger Bartels
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Re: Confusing text about loosing bonuses and abilities
Aldaron wrote:
Lemonpips wrote:
Within the vocabulary of the rulebook, I see nothing wrong with the last sentence.

Well in rules writing, unnecessary is always "wrong", especially when it's less clear than the same thing previously (in this case just) stated. If all this is saying is that you don't loose the Recruitment Options attached to a Recruitment Tile when the Recruitment Tile is flipped, it's not helpful.


I couldn't disagree with you more. Unnecessary to one person is a helpful example/clarification/reminder to another. In addition, important rules are often restated and highlighted for emphasis and easy reference.
 
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Re: Confusing text about loosing bonuses and abilities
Lemonpips wrote:
I couldn't disagree with you more. Unnecessary to one person is a helpful example/clarification/reminder to another. In addition, important rules are often restated and highlighted for emphasis and easy reference.

I think you're playing games with the word "unnecessary".
 
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Roger Bartels
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Re: Confusing text about loosing bonuses and abilities
Aldaron wrote:
Lemonpips wrote:
I couldn't disagree with you more. Unnecessary to one person is a helpful example/clarification/reminder to another. In addition, important rules are often restated and highlighted for emphasis and easy reference.

I think you're playing games with the word "unnecessary".


Most disagreements turn on a lack of agreement on terms. Please define the word so that there is no disparity in our understanding.
 
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Re: Confusing text about loosing bonuses and abilities
Lemonpips wrote:
Most disagreements turn on a lack of agreement on terms.

That is a widespread fallacy.
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Roger Bartels
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Re: Confusing text about loosing bonuses and abilities
Aldaron wrote:
Lemonpips wrote:
Most disagreements turn on a lack of agreement on terms.

That is a widespread fallacy.


I'll tell you what is clear: you are more interested in appearing intelligent and critical than engaging in a discussion, the primary purpose of a forum.
 
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Re: Confusing text about loosing bonuses and abilities
Lemonpips wrote:
I'll tell you what is clear: you are more interested in appearing intelligent and critical than engaging in a discussion, the primary purpose of a forum.

Lots of assumptions there!
 
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Martin Gallo
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Re: Confusing text about loosing bonuses and abilities
Aldaron wrote:
Lemonpips wrote:
Within the vocabulary of the rulebook, I see nothing wrong with the last sentence.

Well in rules writing, unnecessary is always "wrong", especially when it's less clear than the same thing previously (in this case just) stated. If all this is saying is that you don't loose the Recruitment Options attached to a Recruitment Tile when the Recruitment Tile is flipped, it's not helpful.
Before you get too carried away with your definitions you might want to look at the thread title. "Loosing" is not even a word!whistle
 
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martimer wrote:
"Loosing" is not even a word!

It is, just the wrong one (though it almost makes sense in this context).
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Martin Gallo
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Aldaron wrote:
martimer wrote:
"Loosing" is not even a word!

It is, just the wrong one (though it almost makes sense in this context).
I managed to forget about arrows! I even used to do archery as a hobby!
 
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