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Subject: Scenario aid token and empty hexes? rss

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Chris Kessel
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Does a scenario aid token count as a token as far as making a hex non-empty? I don't see anything that says otherwise in the FAQ, but it seems counter-intuitive that a "1" on a door to indicate you're going to read flavor text would make that hex non-empty (doors themselves don't count as negating non-empty).

I couldn't find any clarification on it, what do folks think?
 
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Diane Mountford
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Don't know that I've seen an official ruling, but since sometimes those tokens are used to ...

Spoiler (click to reveal)
spawn monsters


... which must normally happen in an empty hex, I'd say they don't count as filling the hex.
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Philipp Schuster
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We play them as empty hexes. We usually treat them only as reminders and even remove the letter from the door as soon as we read the flavour text.
 
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Jay Johnson
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I've always wondered the reasoning behind why the presence of a coin makes a hex unsuitable for something to be summoned or spawned there. unless it was specifically just to provide a sort of limit to spawn/summon mechanics.
 
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Scott Wheelock
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JayJ79 wrote:
I've always wondered the reasoning behind why the presence of a coin makes a hex unsuitable for something to be summoned or spawned there. unless it was specifically just to provide a sort of limit to spawn/summon mechanics.


It’s a stretch, but maybe so you can’t place a summon on the coin, thus blocking another player from moving into that hex (and getting the coin)?
 
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Chris Willott
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In a lot of folklore, demons and the fae are harmed by iron -- so it's possible that the presence of metals disrupts the casting of the summon spell.
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Matt M
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JayJ79 wrote:
I've always wondered the reasoning behind why the presence of a coin makes a hex unsuitable for something to be summoned or spawned there. unless it was specifically just to provide a sort of limit to spawn/summon mechanics.


Wait this is a rule?
 
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mellman99 wrote:
JayJ79 wrote:
I've always wondered the reasoning behind why the presence of a coin makes a hex unsuitable for something to be summoned or spawned there. unless it was specifically just to provide a sort of limit to spawn/summon mechanics.


Wait this is a rule?


Meh, it's only technically a rule according to the FAQ.

We dont stop things from spawning/summoning if there are a bunch of coins everywhere.

Quote:
Can you explain the difference between an unoccupied hex and an empty hex?
An unoccupied hex has no figures (monsters, characters or character summons) present. An empty hex has no figures, tokens (money or otherwise), or overlay tiles of any kind (except corridors, open doors, and pressure plates) present.


The rules say summons/spawned monsters must be placed in an empty hex.
 
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Chris Willott
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"Empty Hex" is defined on p.19 of the rulebook under the rules for flying creatures (that lose flying when over a obstacle). As to why a previously flying monster can't land on a coin?? Your guess is as good as mine.
 
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Jay Johnson
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Willottica wrote:
"Empty Hex" is defined on p.19 of the rulebook under the rules for flying creatures (that lose flying when over a obstacle). As to why a previously flying monster can't land on a coin?? Your guess is as good as mine.

only reason I can think of was to prevent people from dropping monsters that were hovering over obstacles onto traps or hazards (they already take trap damage for falling on top of an obstacle).

Of course both rule peculiarities could be avoided by omitting "token" from the definition of "empty hex"

I'm not sure how often any figures really ever lose flying during a scenario anyway, much less losing flying while hovering over an obstacle.
 
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Des T.
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Willottica wrote:
As to why a previously flying monster can't land on a coin?? Your guess is as good as mine.


My guess is that gold tokens represents a monster's corpse (or, in case of pre-spawned tokens, other valuables) that can be looted, and the gold you get for tokens are, in fact, the amount of money you get when selling the loot.

A corpse would definitely be a good reason not to summon or land on that hex.

That the corpses disappear after being looted is Isaac sticking to the KISS approach.
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Fito R
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You're bringing thematic interpretation into a mechanical rule. The mechanic being, it's easier to make one rule without exceptions, than many rules with many different exceptions. No, it doesn't make much sense but at least it's not an absolute feel-bad like the rolling modifier-advantage thing
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Robert Stewart
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DeS_Tructive wrote:
Willottica wrote:
As to why a previously flying monster can't land on a coin?? Your guess is as good as mine.


My guess is that gold tokens represents a monster's corpse (or, in case of pre-spawned tokens, other valuables) that can be looted, and the gold you get for tokens are, in fact, the amount of money you get when selling the loot.

A corpse would definitely be a good reason not to summon or land on that hex.

That the corpses disappear after being looted is Isaac sticking to the KISS approach.


Hey, any competent alchemist would happily pay an arm and a leg for a mostly intact corpse!

The real question is how you can fit entire corpses into your pouches of holding, but can't find anywhere to store a second potion (until you get some more experience...)
 
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Des T.
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Joou wrote:
You're bringing thematic interpretation into a mechanical rule. The mechanic being, it's easier to make one rule without exceptions, than many rules with many different exceptions. No, it doesn't make much sense but at least it's not an absolute feel-bad like the rolling modifier-advantage thing


If you can find a thematic interpretations for rules, it's a lot easier to remember them and apply them correctly. In the coin token = lootable corpse example, form can clearly follow function.
 
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Jay Johnson
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Joou wrote:
You're bringing thematic interpretation into a mechanical rule. The mechanic being, it's easier to make one rule without exceptions, than many rules with many different exceptions. No, it doesn't make much sense but at least it's not an absolute feel-bad like the rolling modifier-advantage thing

if people can whine incessantly about the rolling advantage thing, I can whine incessantly about this. haha. (though honestly, it doesn't really bother me. I'm fine with the possibility of monsters not being able to summon reinforcements because coins are in the way).

But there are already exceptions to this rule (corridor tiles, open doors, pressure plates). And I can't think of other types of "tokens" that would interfere with summons any more than coins would. (unless character summons are considered tokens, after all the component list does refer to them as summon tokens)
 
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Fito R
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Corridors, open doors and pressure plates are all supposed to function as part of the background map, though. They hardly qualify as "tokens".

Also, no. You do not get to whine about anything! That would be silly. Only I get to whine about things, obviously.
 
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Casey Harris
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First edition doesn't even come with the "aid" tokens (with letters on them). So doesn't that settle the question?

If a hex is marked "a" in the scenario book, then hex "a" on your board/tile has to be empty in 1st edition (because there is no aid token as part of the game to even place there).

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Darren Nakamura
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Yeah, I haven't even been using those tokens as some people apparently have been. I never interpreted the map to say "place a 1 token on this door," just "when you open this door, read the 1 passage."
 
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