Recommend
1 
 Thumb up
 Hide
16 Posts

Star Wars: Rebellion» Forums » Rules

Subject: Leave No One Behind clarification rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Andy
Norway
Stavanger
Rogaland
flag msg tools
badge
"I am the one who knocks..."
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Hi,

I have lost a Rebel leader to first being captured and then lured to the Dark Side. As they are now an Imperial leader can I still play Leave No One behind or do they count as captured still, even though they are in Imperial control?

Thanks,

Andy
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dan P
United States
Michigan
flag msg tools
Lured leaders are no longer captured. You can play that objective as long as you have nobody with the Capture or Carbonite rings.
8 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James Stone
United States
Sacramento
Ca
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I Don't know... And I often end up playing the rebels so I sympothize with the question but am conflicted on the above response...
If The leader is now an Imperial Agent, No one left behind can not be played as I would see it.
Because they are in fact REALLY Captured... I would think one would have to maintain that leader pool of "8" (or matching recruit turn) in order to play that and receive the reputation move for it.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott Lewis
United States
Thornton
Colorado
flag msg tools
NFHS Football & Basketball
badge
Dread Our Coming, Suffer Our Presence, Embrace Our Glory (Solonavi War Cry)
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Lured leaders are not captured - effects that target Captured leaders cannot target them. I'm pretty sure there's been at least one ruling on this.

Counting Lured leaders as captured would make it pretty much impossible for that objective to be achieved if it happens. And if so, the Empire could just use it against a wimpy leader for the sole purpose of denying the objective.

EDIT: Plus, the objective says no captured REBEL leaders. Lure of the Dark Side specifically says it becomes an IMPERIAL leader for the rest of the game. Thus, it's not a captured rebel leader for two reasons - it's not captured NOR is it a rebel leader
12 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andy
Norway
Stavanger
Rogaland
flag msg tools
badge
"I am the one who knocks..."
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thanks for the speedy replies!

That was our understanding of it as well but we wanted to be sure.

Cheers!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James Stone
United States
Sacramento
Ca
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Sticking to my original response, and that's the way I would play that. I can't find a FFG response to that question... looked at the FFG Community Board. And I can't find that response here. So I'm going with The Rebels won't play that objective card for reputation.
Question "How does loosing a Leader to the Darkside help the Rebellion?"

Let's Say Luke gets Lured to the Darkside.
Han comes back to rebel base (Leader Pool)
"Where's Luke?" Han asks.
"Who?" replies Leia. whistle

Once again my point, if Leadership is "missing" rebels dont play that card. So, the rebels, need to make a concerted effort NOT to get captured or lured, as opposed to "Gee, I hope my leader gets turned so I can play this objective card! (and BTW get two reputation for not really doing anything or attempting to save my fellow rebel!)

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott Lewis
United States
Thornton
Colorado
flag msg tools
NFHS Football & Basketball
badge
Dread Our Coming, Suffer Our Presence, Embrace Our Glory (Solonavi War Cry)
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
If Leia has been Lured, exactly which "Rebel Leader" is captured? Can't be Leia, as she's not a rebel leader anymore.

If you are treating her as captured, that means you have to allow her to be "Rescued" or targeted by ANY card that can be done with Rebel Leaders. This would mean you have to follow ALL the rules for capture leaders, which means that they can't move (except by being moved like a ground force), they can be rescued, etc. You can't have it both ways - either a Lured leader is captured, or not.

From the rules, on Page 03, under Captured Leaders, it talks about a captured leader having the "Captured Ring". At the end of the section, it specifically also says that a leader with the "Carbonite" attachment is also captured. It does *not* say the same for a Lured leader.


Regarding the objective, my point is if a Lured leader counts as captured, the Empire could pretty easily capture and lure a weak, easy-to-get leader just to deny the objective, and it would be pretty much permanent; apart from a couple rare, corner-case scenarios, it's impossible to "un-Lure" a leader.

Again, between the rule I quoted above, and the fact the card says "REBEL leaders", it's quite clear that a Lured leader would NOT count against that.

Quote:
Once again my point, if Leadership is "missing" rebels dont play that card. So, the rebels, need to make a concerted effort NOT to get captured or lured, as opposed to "Gee, I hope my leader gets turned so I can play this objective card! (and BTW get two reputation for not really doing anything or attempting to save my fellow rebel!)

Nobody is going to say "gee, I hope my leader gets turned" - they're going to try and rescue the leader. Sure, they could get points by hoping that, but losing a leader and giving it to the Empire is a pretty significant power balance shift. And that assumes that after Luring the leader that the Empire doesn't immediately capture another leader anyway.


If you want to play it wrong, you are certainly welcome to do so, but the rules and text are pretty clear that a Lured leader is not captured. What rules would you cite to back up your interpretation?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jorgen Peddersen
Australia
Sydney
New South Wales
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The conflicting argument here appears to be almost entirely thematic. It is absurd to consider Lured lead as captured mechanically for the reasons that Pasi pointed out. Let me try to handle the thematic side too.

A lured leader has been turned so strongly that they are now willingly helping the other side. They are not under duress, they have actually become a traitor to the Rebels. The Rebels will consider that character to always have been flawed and never truly on their side.

Nobody would consider Darth Vader or Kylo Ren to be 'captured' leaders simply because Anakin Skywalker and Ben Solo started out good. Once they have started actively working for the other side of their own free will, they are divorced from the original side and not considered worthy of being among the Rebel leadership any more.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James Stone
United States
Sacramento
Ca
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Okay, I'll play it Wrong. But I will stick to the Ranger Creed on that one.

The point is that the Rebels LOST a Leader. Doesn't get much more Left Behind than that Dude!!! And yeah, the rebels SHOULD NOT be rewarded if the rebellion lost an asset(especially 2 points on the track!! Come on!!) How in the Hell does that help your repute?

In addition, a convert is way more damaging to a political cause as opposed to a prisoner; so why would the rebellion be able to be rewarded off of that? Both Politically (reputation), and tactically (missions)it should hurt the Rebels "Due to their Lack of Vision"... You should be not afforded the benefit from that Objective.

And because it does "*not* say, does not make it *so*. Just means its not truely clarified. The leader is even more captured in my humble opinion. Was once a rebel asset at the start of the game, now not a rebel asset = CAPTURED

Not trying to be a Pi$$ant or contrarian here but, it just doesn't make sense to me.

Get Konieczka on the line!
1 
 Thumb up
5.00
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott Lewis
United States
Thornton
Colorado
flag msg tools
NFHS Football & Basketball
badge
Dread Our Coming, Suffer Our Presence, Embrace Our Glory (Solonavi War Cry)
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
stoneman63 wrote:
Was once a rebel asset at the start of the game, now not a rebel asset = CAPTURED

That is not how "captured" is defined in the rules. Changing the definition to fit your interpretation is going to lead to a lot of problems when it comes to trying to get accurate rulings.

If you are in doubt, you can certainly submit the rules question to Corey. I think everyone here already knows the answer, because despite your claim, the rules ARE clear as to what a captured leader is.

And, back to the quote above - if it's not a "rebel asset", then it doesn't count against the card anyway, because the objective specifically says "Rebel Leaders".

To be frank, there is absolutely zero rules justification for your claim. Your only justification has been thematic interpretation (and Clipper's spin on it is just as valid, yet fits with the game rules as written).
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Witold G
Poland
Bytom
flag msg tools
Avatar
stoneman63 wrote:
(and BTW get two reputation for not really doing anything or attempting to save my fellow rebel!)
stoneman63 wrote:
And yeah, the rebels SHOULD NOT be rewarded if the rebellion lost an asset(especially 2 points on the track!! Come on!!)

Leave No One Behind is only worth 1 point, if it makes it easier to accept for you. meeple
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James Stone
United States
Sacramento
Ca
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Perf wrote:
stoneman63 wrote:
(and BTW get two reputation for not really doing anything or attempting to save my fellow rebel!)
stoneman63 wrote:
And yeah, the rebels SHOULD NOT be rewarded if the rebellion lost an asset(especially 2 points on the track!! Come on!!)

Leave No One Behind is only worth 1 point, if it makes it easier to accept for you. meeple



Yeah It does! Thanks!!!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ullakko Morko
msg tools
stoneman63 wrote:
Let's Say Luke gets Lured to the Darkside.
Han comes back to rebel base (Leader Pool)
"Where's Luke?" Han asks.


"He's with his father" Leia replies darkly.
"I knew it! I knew right from the start that boy couldn't be trusted. Good thing he showed his true nature." Han shouts!

OR

"Where's Ackbar? Haven't seen him in a while." Pilot A
"He deserted us for the Empire" Pilot B
"Good riddance. I never trusted him anyway. There was something fishy about him". Pilot A

Do these help?
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ty
United States
California
flag msg tools
There was an official ruling on "Lure of the Dark Side" and the capture status of leaders by Corey Konieczka.

Quote:
"Lure of the Darkside" and "Leave No One Behind" Does the turned rebel leader count as captured for the purpose of this objective card?
No. This is no longer a captured leader.
You can see the whole post here: https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/217120-offici...
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andy
Norway
Stavanger
Rogaland
flag msg tools
badge
"I am the one who knocks..."
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
That last response from the designer seems pretty definitive to me so I'm happy.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Roger Secrest
United States
Clarksville
Tennessee
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
stoneman63 wrote:
Okay, I'll play it Wrong. But I will stick to the Ranger Creed on that one.

Left Behind


gg for the Ragnar Ranger Creed reference ninjaninja
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.