Austin Richards
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Most new ASL products require a lot of other ASL products to play all of the scenarios. From pre-release posts, you could figure Forgotten War would require Beyond Valor, Yanks, Armies Of Oblivion, Croix de Guerre, Doomed Battalions, For King And Country and/or West of Alamein, Rising Sun, and Action Packs 2, 3, and 7. Those 11 products get you the counters, maps, and overlays. The rules, as always, are extra. But if you're new to ASL, only Beyond Valor and Yanks are in print, so what can you play? Even if you have a large ASL collection, what if you don't have the Action Pack 2 overlays, how does that affect you?

Besides Beyond Valor and Forgotten War, what else will you need?

Scenario 203 Hard ROK - needs FKaC (board 23)
Scenario 204 Human Bullets - needs Yanks (board 24)
Scenario 205 Super Bazooka - needs Yanks (counters), AP3 (board 43), Rising Sun (overlay RP2)
Scenario 206 Hey, That Ain't A ROK - needs Yanks (counters), Rising Sun (board 37), Armies Of Oblivion (board 50)
Scenario 207 Bullets For Breakfast - needs Yanks (counters), Doomed Battalions (boards 9 & 44), Rising Sun (overlay RP5)
Scenario 208 The Grist Mill - needs Yanks (counters & board 18), West of Alamein (Sanger counters)
Scenario 209 A Line Too Thinly Held - needs Yanks (counters & board 17), Croix de Guerre (overlays OG2 & OG5), AP2 (overlay Hi7)
Scenario 210 This Is Where We Stand - needs Rising Sun (counters)
Scenario 211 Task Force Faith Breakout - needs Yanks (counters, boards 18 & 19), Croix de Guerre (overlay St3), Doomed Battalions (overlay OW1), AP2 (overlay Hi7)
Scenario 212 First Bayonet Charge - needs Croix de Guerre (overlays OG4 & OG5), West of Alamein (Sanger counters)
Scenario 213 It's So Easy - needs Yanks (counters)
Scenario 214 Seoul Saving - needs FKaC (counters), Doomed Battalions (board 33), Armies of Oblivion (overlay Rv1), Croix de Guerre (overlays OG1, OG2)
Scenario 215 Red Devils - needs Yanks (counters, board 19), FkaC (board 15), Doomed Battalions (board 44, Rising Sun (overlays B1 & B2), Croix de Guerre (overlays OG1, OG4, OG5)
Scenario 216 Centurions Reverse! - needs FKaC (counters), Rising Sun (overlays B2 & RP3)
Scenario 217 Gloster Hill - needs FKaC (counters)
Scenario 218 Siberia Diversion - needs Rising Sun (counters), AP7 (board 61)

So, for the novice ASL player, owning just Beyond Valor means you don't have enough to play any of the scenarios. Add Yanks to your collection, and that allows 2 scenarios (3 if you substitute foxholes for sangers). Yanks and the 2018 Winter Offensive Bonus Pack adds another Korean War scenario (WO28, Dean's Defiance).

Have fun!
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Perry Cocke
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Forgotten War is NOT the entry point for ASL.

But with BV and Yanks and the map board bundle, I think you can play five of the FW scenarios, and several more if you can swing the overlays.

Overlay bundle this year is a priority.
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Andrew Highley
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Very useful - Thanks!

Note that Rising Sun also includes OG1-5, so owners of BV, RS & Yanks can probably play 1-2 more.
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Austin Richards
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That's good news about the overlay pack!


Another way to look at it is that with the map bundle, an overlay pack, FKaC, Yanks and Rising Sun you'd then be able to play everything, plus of course most of your Yanks, Rising Sun and FKaC scenarios. Well, you'll also want Hollow Legions 3 for the sanger counters.
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Kai Axford
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Looking forward to this on VASL as well!
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Joel Tamburo
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I like a lot of what I have seen but I admit to not being happy that so many scenarios use overlays and also that the list of required products is long.

I wish the core modules could be setup so that all scenarios in them require only that module, the rulebook (of course) and either or both of Beyond Valor and Yanks. Why these? Because they are in print and it keeps the money sink a little under control.
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Craig H
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Joelist wrote:
I like a lot of what I have seen but I admit to not being happy that so many scenarios use overlays and also that the list of required products is long.

I wish the core modules could be setup so that all scenarios in them require only that module, the rulebook (of course) and either or both of Beyond Valor and Yanks. Why these? Because they are in print and it keeps the money sink a little under control.


Amen brother !

I was really looking forward to this but now that I see the requirements, doubt I will buy it.

I was hoping MMP would see this as a way to make a "clean break" - a nice self-contained game (okay, include BV as a requirement) but not requiring modules from another war to play.
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Charles BAINTER
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DIY DIY
 
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Bill Gates
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I don't have Rising Sun. Would Code of Bushido and Gung Ho! provide the components I need?
 
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Kai Axford
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Not all of them. Still need a bunch more. Here's the reference I was given (Props to klasmalmstrom for pulling this together):

http://www.gamesquad.com/forums/index.php?threads/fw-scenari...

Here is a list of the FW scenarios:

203 Hard ROK – North Koreans vs South Koreans, 7½ turns, 25 June 1950, Munsan-ni, South Korea
204 Human Bullets – North Koreans vs South Koreans, 8½ turns, 28 June 1950, On the Inje-Hongch'on road, South Korea
205 Super Bazooka – North Koreans vs Americans, 5 turns, 20 July 1950, West of Taegu, South Korea
206 Hey, That Ain't A ROK - North Koreans vs Americans, 8 turns, 27 July 1950, Near Hadong, South Korea
207 Bullets For Breakfast - North Koreans vs Americans, 8 turns, 3 August 1950, Chindong-Ni, 8 km west of Masan, South Korea
208 The Grist Mill - North Koreans vs Americans, 5 turns, 6 August 1950, Soesil, South Korea
209 A Line Too Thinly Held - North Koreans vs Americans, 6½ turns, 31 August 1950, Kihang Ferry Crossing, Agok, South Korea
210 This Is Where We Stand - Communist Chinese vs Americans, 8 turns, 27 November 1950, Hill 1282, Yudam-ni, North Korea
211 Task Force Faith Breakout - Americans vs Communist Chinese, 9½ turns, 1 December 1950, East of Chosin Reservoir, North Korea
212 First Bayonet Charge - OUNC vs North Koreans, 7 turns, 10 January 1951, Hill 247, south of Wonju, South Korea
213 It's So Easy - Americans vs Communist Chinese, 6½ turns, 10 February 1951, West of Chipyong-ni, South Korea
214 Seoul Saving - Communist Chinese vs British, 7 turns, 22/23 April 1951, Hill 182, east of Choksong, South Korea
215 Red Devils - Communist Chinese vs Americans, 7 turns, 24 April 1951, South of Chichon-ni, South Korea
216 Centurions Reverse! - Communist Chinese vs British, 5½ turns, 25 April 1951, Imjin River, South Korea
217 Gloster Hill - Communist Chinese vs British, 6 turns, 25 April 1951, Hill 235, near Solma-ni, South Korea
218 Siberia Diversion - Americans vs Communist Chinese, 10 turns, 11 August 1952, Hill 58A, near Munsan-ni, South Korea


And this is what you need to play them all:

Nationalities:
South Koreans*
Russians (North Koreans)
U.S. Army
U.S.M.C.
Communist Chinese*
OUNC*
British

Boards:
2, 8, 9, 10, 15, 17, 18, 19, 23, 24, 33, 37, 43, 44, 50, 61, 80*, 81*, 82*, 83*

Overlays:
B1, B2
Hi7
OG1, OG2, OG4, OG5
OW1
RP2, RP3, RP5
Rv1
St3

* Part of the module
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Perry Cocke
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You can play a lot of FW with just it, BV, Yanks, and the map pack.

Even more if you have access to overlays.
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Michael McLean
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CraigH wrote:
Joelist wrote:
I like a lot of what I have seen but I admit to not being happy that so many scenarios use overlays and also that the list of required products is long.

I wish the core modules could be setup so that all scenarios in them require only that module, the rulebook (of course) and either or both of Beyond Valor and Yanks. Why these? Because they are in print and it keeps the money sink a little under control.


Amen brother !

I was really looking forward to this but now that I see the requirements, doubt I will buy it.

I was hoping MMP would see this as a way to make a "clean break" - a nice self-contained game (okay, include BV as a requirement) but not requiring modules from another war to play.


I was really hoping that it would be a clean break as well. It seems like this module would pull in many more new players who are interested in Korea at this level but not interested in spending an additional $500 in WWII modules just to be able to play less than half the scenarios.

I didn't realize just how extensive the dependency list was until after I bought the module or I probably would have stayed away. I have BV, Yanks, Gung Ho, and Code of Bushido, and can't play half the game.

I'm really very disappointed.
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Marc Hanna
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Why in the world EVER expect a clean break? That's never been done with ANY of the major modules so don't expect it now. It's always been advertised as an expansion module. I think any disappointment regarding this obvious reality is way over the top. 'Modules from another war' indeed -- farcical complaint -- it's a game system spanning decades of multitudinous wars across the globe, from the 30's to now the '50s. Go play starter kits then, where everything is self-contained. If you can play half of the stuff, nice, work on getting the rest if the stuff so you can play the rest -- Geesh! This is ASL, not some slapdash Kickstarter game.

I just got my copy of this and it's beautiful; a total masterpiece, one of their best ever, the usual high quality is still second to none in the tactical board gaming hobby, congrats MMP. Double congrats for putting up a production schedule on your website, by the way.

Folks, you'll be doing yourself a disservice whingeing or worrying about prerequisite modules instead of buying this. If you want to support MMP continuing to supply core reprints when they can, spend the money on this, help the system grow.
 
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Michael McLean
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Excluding 3rd party product, ASL does not span decades or cover multitudinous wars. It covers WWII. Making up "facts" and throwing insults does nothing to change that.

There is absolutely NO reason that expanding to a new war wouldn't mean starting over.

I would understand requiring BV for the system counters, but I would gladly have paid an extra $50-100 for a few extra maps and counters to make the game playable.

Like I said, I already have 4 modules and some AP's, but it would still cost me $4-500 to be able to pay all scenarios. And none of that money would go to MMP to support the company, because everything I need is out of print.

When I went to MMP's website, it did mention that ownership of the system was necessary. I didn't realize they meant the entire system. There was no list at all of just how much extra content was needed, it I absolutely wouldn't have bought it.

I'll refrain from insulting you the way you insulted everyone who dared disagree with you.
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Marc Hanna
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gocamels wrote:
Excluding 3rd party product, ASL does not span decades or cover multitudinous wars. It covers WWII. Making up "facts" and throwing insults does nothing to change that.

There is absolutely NO reason that expanding to a new war wouldn't mean starting over.

I would understand requiring BV for the system counters, but I would gladly have paid an extra $50-100 for a few extra maps and counters to make the game playable.

Like I said, I already have 4 modules and some AP's, but it would still cost me $4-500 to be able to pay all scenarios. And none of that money would go to MMP to support the company, because everything I need is out of print.

When I went to MMP's website, it did mention that ownership of the system was necessary. I didn't realize they meant the entire system. There was no list at all of just how much extra content was needed, it I absolutely wouldn't have bought it.

I'll refrain from insulting you the way you insulted everyone who dared disagree with you.


WW2 consisted of a variety of wars spanning the globe; it's not hard to see Korea as an extension of this, really. Sorry you can't see this as obvious, and in saying so, it's not an insult unless you want to take it as one.

No facts are being made up here, if one wants to see WW2 as one big glob and not as a separate collection of wide-ranging conflicts, they are free to do so. I disagree with that perspective. It's still farcical to complain that MMP should develop a completely stand-alone collection of modules for just Korea when it's based on an entire system resultant from that collection of previous and related conflicts. And if you find the use of the word farcical insulting, I can't help that, but I don't agree that it is.

Maybe you should see your cup as half full, not half empty. Caveat emptor, remember? You bought the module knowing that it said the system was required, you are the one who didn't bother to check into it, right? Sorry you are angry and touchy, but apparently challenging your perspective is considered insulting by you. I can't help that either.

Instead, perhaps you should look at this as an opportunity to flesh out your collection. By the way you need not refrain from insulting me but you might want to refrain from accusing me of doing that when it isn't the case
 
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Michael McLean
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Regardless of how you want to look at Works War 2, in no way did the ASL treatment of it span anything approaching "decades". Counting Korea in that span of time is really disingenuous, since that's the subject being discussed.

Or did you intend that 1939-1945 encompasses "decades?" Technically I suppose it does, but calling a six year span "decades" seems to be a stretch to make a point.

And trying to explain away one word of your post doesn't change the fact that both of them were extremely condescending to anyone who disagreed.
 
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Craig H
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So if I look at the dependencies chart on BGG, I see many expansions that only require BV to use the expansion - Yanks, FKaC, Doomed Battalions, Hakka Paalle and others.

I don't see why it is farcical to think that an expansion, again, although you ignore this, that is from another war, could have entered the system at that level.

It seems from the OP that you need at least BV (to be clear, no-one is disputing its inclusion as a requirement), Yanks, Rising Sun and FKaC to get reasonable value out of this expansion.

On the ASL dependency chart that puts it at the level of Action Packs for dependencies.

So it seems to me, this expansion is in fact a first - a $100 expansion that requires three or more other modules to play the game.





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gocamels wrote:
There is absolutely NO reason that expanding to a new war wouldn't mean starting over.


You clearly have no idea of what you're talking about.

Quote:
I would understand requiring BV for the system counters, but I would gladly have paid an extra $50-100 for a few extra maps and counters to make the game playable.


How nice for you. As someone (like many hundreds, if not thousands, of other existing ASL players) I would object in the strongest possible terms to being asked to pay virtually double the price of an already quite-expensive product just for the privilege of buying stuff that I already own!

Quote:
When I went to MMP's website, it did mention that ownership of the system was necessary. I didn't realize they meant the entire system.


Well, now you know. You could have asked in advance. It's MMP's fault that you didn't exercise due diligence on your own behalf?

Since you already own many of the system modules, it's inconceivable that you do not already understand how the modular nature of the ASL system works. If you want to play everything then you need to own everything. If you don't own everything then you will, for most products, be unable to play 100% of the product's contents. Fortunately that will always still leave many, many products that you can play. Now, if FW only included content that was playable only if you already owned products that are all completely out of print, you'd have a very good point. I'm pretty sure that isn't true. (And the inability of MMP to keep all the core modules consistently in print is an obvious ongoing weakness of their business and thus a very valid point, but I'm pretty sure that it's well-known to everyone by now.)
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Marc Hanna
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CraigH wrote:
So if I look at the dependencies chart on BGG, I see many expansions that only require BV to use the expansion - Yanks, FKaC, Doomed Battalions, Hakka Paalle and others.


Is that really true? Don't players need a bunch of out-of-modules maps that don't come with BV and overlays, etc to play all of Hakka Paalle? Hmm I see some Hillock overlays required for one scenario...some RR overlays for another. I don't recall getting those in either BV or HP when I bought them.

CraigH wrote:

I don't see why it is farcical to think that an expansion, again, although you ignore this, that is from another war, could have entered the system at that level.


It is nonsensical (synonym for farcical) because you are hung up on a non-correlated-with-reality idea that 'another war' has anything to do with how ASL has and will be rolled out over the past and coming years. Modules never have been released in such a way. Even the first BV I bought back in 1989 didn't have all the maps to play all the scenarios (how dare they succeed in such a manner even back then?). In spite of what you and others say, WW2 consisted of more than one interconnected conflict; the system encompasses, for example, scenarios from the Spanish Civil War and the Sino-Japanese War starting in 1933. There is an Ethiopia module out there that required ownership of the Italian module. True, it's not MMPs. But should that publisher be excoriated because they didn't make it self-contained, because it was technically another war by the standards you invoke?


CraigH wrote:

On the ASL dependency chart that puts it at the level of Action Packs for dependencies.


So what? Is this important in any significant way?

CraigH wrote:


So it seems to me, this expansion is in fact a first - a $100 expansion that requires three or more other modules to play the game.


I don't think that's correct, but I don't analyze ASL module by module to determine expansion dependencies. And even if so, again, so what? You've made the decision not to buy it on this basis and I don't think that's how to approach this game system and in no way is MMP obligated to meet this 'one module' prerequisite you've invented here.
 
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Paul Symoens
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CraigH wrote:

On the ASL dependency chart that puts it at the level of Action Packs for dependencies.



So it seems to me, this expansion is in fact a first - a $100 expansion that requires three or more other modules to play the game.



I agree 100% with your statement.
At least 50% of the scenarios had to be playable without any other module.
 
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