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Subject: My deck building confusion with experience rss

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Daniel Schwartz
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A friend and I were trying to decipher the deck building rules when experience was added. I built a Jenny deck. Her rules are up to 5 cards from other factions with 0 experience. I thought I could level up Vicious Blow. My friend thought it violated the deck limits on her card. That is where my confusion comes in. Are we allowed to upgrade the cards, like Roland upgrading Magnifying Glass or Jenny upgrading Vicious Blow even if we now have 1 card with experience out of the number of zero level experience cards we are allowed of the other class? With the exception of Jenny, those numbers are the minimum, like Roland has five zero level experience cards, but could have more, correct?

Thanks.
 
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Rom129 wrote:
A friend and I were trying to decipher the deck building rules when experience was added. I built a Jenny deck. Her rules are up to 5 cards from other factions with 0 experience. I thought I could level up Vicious Blow. My friend thought it violated the deck limits on her card. That is where my confusion comes in. Are we allowed to upgrade the cards, like Roland upgrading Magnifying Glass or Jenny upgrading Vicious Blow even if we now have 1 card with experience out of the number of zero level experience cards we are allowed of the other class? With the exception of Jenny, those numbers are the minimum, like Roland has five zero level experience cards, but could have more, correct?

Thanks.


Upgrading cards still requires them to adhere to the investigator's deckbuilding restrictions.

Jenny can take up to 5 of any kind of class card at lvl 0, so she's more versatile than, say, Skids. But Skids, though he can't take lvl 0 seeker cards, COULD upgrade vicious blow as his deckbuilding restrictions include guardian cards at lvl 0-2.
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Daniel Schwartz
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soakman wrote:
Rom129 wrote:
A friend and I were trying to decipher the deck building rules when experience was added. I built a Jenny deck. Her rules are up to 5 cards from other factions with 0 experience. I thought I could level up Vicious Blow. My friend thought it violated the deck limits on her card. That is where my confusion comes in. Are we allowed to upgrade the cards, like Roland upgrading Magnifying Glass or Jenny upgrading Vicious Blow even if we now have 1 card with experience out of the number of zero level experience cards we are allowed of the other class? With the exception of Jenny, those numbers are the minimum, like Roland has five zero level experience cards, but could have more, correct?

Thanks.


Upgrading cards still requires them to adhere to the investigator's deckbuilding restrictions.

Jenny can take up to 5 of any kind of class card at lvl 0, so she's more versatile than, say, Skids. But Skids, though he can't take lvl 0 seeker cards, COULD upgrade vicious blow as his deckbuilding restrictions include guardian cards at lvl 0-2.


So Jenny could never upgrade her cards because she's only allowed five other cards at level 0. Skids has to have a minimum of two level 0 Guardian cards. He can have any number (within deck building limits) of other Guardian experienced cards provided he had two level 0.

I guess that is where my confusion lies - 30 cards - X class has level 0 -5, Y class has level 0 - 2, Neutral has level 0 - 5. That's 12 out of 30. That means 12 cards always have to be level 0. I can change them out with other level 0 cards. I get to upgrade 18 cards.

If that holds true then I totally played Jenny wrong. I upgraded Vicious Blow. I purchased Extra Ammo. She couldn't have had either. Time to rethink my strategy with her. I liked getting her Twin .45s with 20 ammo on them.
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Rom129 wrote:
So Jenny could never upgrade her cards because she's only allowed five other cards at level 0. Skids has to have a minimum of two level 0 Guardian cards. He can have any number (within deck building limits) of other Guardian experienced cards provided he had two level 0.

I guess that is where my confusion lies - 30 cards - X class has level 0 -5, Y class has level 0 - 2, Neutral has level 0 - 5. That's 12 out of 30. That means 12 cards always have to be level 0. I can change them out with other level 0 cards. I get to upgrade 18 cards.

If that holds true then I totally played Jenny wrong. I upgraded Vicious Blow. I purchased Extra Ammo. She couldn't have had either. Time to rethink my strategy with her. I liked getting her Twin .45s with 20 ammo on them.


You can use contraband instead of extra ammo.
 
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Simon C
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Rom129 wrote:
soakman wrote:
Rom129 wrote:
A friend and I were trying to decipher the deck building rules when experience was added. I built a Jenny deck. Her rules are up to 5 cards from other factions with 0 experience. I thought I could level up Vicious Blow. My friend thought it violated the deck limits on her card. That is where my confusion comes in. Are we allowed to upgrade the cards, like Roland upgrading Magnifying Glass or Jenny upgrading Vicious Blow even if we now have 1 card with experience out of the number of zero level experience cards we are allowed of the other class? With the exception of Jenny, those numbers are the minimum, like Roland has five zero level experience cards, but could have more, correct?

Thanks.


Upgrading cards still requires them to adhere to the investigator's deckbuilding restrictions.

Jenny can take up to 5 of any kind of class card at lvl 0, so she's more versatile than, say, Skids. But Skids, though he can't take lvl 0 seeker cards, COULD upgrade vicious blow as his deckbuilding restrictions include guardian cards at lvl 0-2.


So Jenny could never upgrade her cards because she's only allowed five other cards at level 0. Skids has to have a minimum of two level 0 Guardian cards. He can have any number (within deck building limits) of other Guardian experienced cards provided he had two level 0.

I guess that is where my confusion lies - 30 cards - X class has level 0 -5, Y class has level 0 - 2, Neutral has level 0 - 5. That's 12 out of 30. That means 12 cards always have to be level 0. I can change them out with other level 0 cards. I get to upgrade 18 cards.

If that holds true then I totally played Jenny wrong. I upgraded Vicious Blow. I purchased Extra Ammo. She couldn't have had either. Time to rethink my strategy with her. I liked getting her Twin .45s with 20 ammo on them.


No, this is still completely misreading the instructions.

"Rogue cards level 0-5" means you can take any number of Rogue cards, and all your Rogue cards can be of any level, NOT that you must have 5 Level 0 Rogue cards.

Skids is allowed to have any number of cards from either Guardian or Rogue classes. However, his Guardian cards aren't allowed to be above Level 2. He could have all 30 of his cards be level 1 Guardian cards, if enough such cards were released, and he'd earned 30XP over the campaign. Alternatively he could have no Guardian cards at all and any mix of Rogue and Neutral cards, each of any level (all cards with levels are between Levels 0 and 5). Or some mix! However, he could never take Shotgun, because that's a level 4 Guardian card, and his cap is Level 2 for Guardian.

Jenny, meanwhile, can also take any level of Rogue or Neutral cards. Her only cards from other factions are not limited to a specific other faction like Skids, but also unlike Skids they are limited to a maximum of 5 (so she must have at least 25 cards between Rogue and Neutral, although she could have more if she wanted) and the other faction cards can only be Level 0. If you earned enough XP and wanted to level up every single card, you'd have to go all in on Rogue and Neutral.

Does that make sense?
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Simon C
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Addendum: I'd strongly recommend registering on arkhamdb.com and using that to try building some hypothetical decks, both starting decks (level 0 cards only) and upgraded. The website will tell you whether a build at any point is legal for your investigator, and tell you which deckbuilding rule you've broken if it is not legal. With some playing around, you should be able to iron out any further misunderstandings about the deckbuilding rules.
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Mark Bauer
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Please don't read this to be in any way condescending, but if this was actually your error I'm really surprised that someone can interpret the wording in such a way. This is fascinating especially for game and rules design since the interpretation of such concepts can apparently be wildly different. wow
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Brendan Riley
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It took me a while to decipher the conversation here, but I understand the error now.

When the card said "Neutral cards level 0-5" Daniel was interpreting it as "Take 5 Neutral cards at level 0". Reading the directions that way, I don't know how you get to 30 cards.

So to clarify for future readers, "0-5" translates as "zero to five".
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James J
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Also, just to be really clear. When you first build a deck for a campaign, it can only contain level 0 cards. You can only include higher level cards if you spend XP on them in between scenarios of a campaign.
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James J
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Rom129 wrote:
So Jenny could never upgrade her cards because she's only allowed five other cards at level 0. Skids has to have a minimum of two level 0 Guardian cards. He can have any number (within deck building limits) of other Guardian experienced cards provided he had two level 0.

I guess that is where my confusion lies - 30 cards - X class has level 0 -5, Y class has level 0 - 2, Neutral has level 0 - 5. That's 12 out of 30. That means 12 cards always have to be level 0. I can change them out with other level 0 cards. I get to upgrade 18 cards.

If that holds true then I totally played Jenny wrong. I upgraded Vicious Blow. I purchased Extra Ammo. She couldn't have had either. Time to rethink my strategy with her. I liked getting her Twin .45s with 20 ammo on them.


It seems, from this post, you thought that deckbuilding requirements were cards you had to include in your deck, when in fact, the deckbuilding requirements outline the only cards you're allowed to include.

It seems you thought: everyone has access to everything, and everyone has a specific set of cards they have to include (e.g. 5 rogue 0's and 2 guardian 0's for Skids).

Actually: no one has access to anything, until their deckbuilding requirements give them access to it. If the type of card isn't mentioned on the back of their card, it isn't allowed in their deck.
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Also deckbuiliding requirements are for that investigator for the entire campaign. They are not guidelines for making their starting deck only. They outline the skills, assets, and events that the investigator is CAPABLE of using.

Read Neutral cards level 0-5 as: Investigator is able to include any amount of Neutral cards from levels zero to five.

It is up to you which ones to include.

The little white dots on a player card tells you what level the card is but please note that ALL investigators starting a campaign must ONLY include level 0 cards in their deck as they start with no experience.

I hope all of this helps!
 
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Daniel Schwartz
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wombat929 wrote:
It took me a while to decipher the conversation here, but I understand the error now.

When the card said "Neutral cards level 0-5" Daniel was interpreting it as "Take 5 Neutral cards at level 0". Reading the directions that way, I don't know how you get to 30 cards.

So to clarify for future readers, "0-5" translates as "zero to five".


Correct - I was reading it 5 cards of level 0 instead of you may have cards of that class from level 0 to level 5.

In my personal notations of things I use the - to separate "level" and "quantity". I have X-6, Y-3, Z-7. When I saw level 0 - I fell back on my personal notation style.

Thank you for clarifying it. I feel like I asked a clerk in the grocery store where the cereal aisle was when it is directly behind me. Very obvious once you "see" it.
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Daniel Schwartz
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soakman wrote:
Also deckbuiliding requirements are for that investigator for the entire campaign. They are not guidelines for making their starting deck only. They outline the skills, assets, and events that the investigator is CAPABLE of using.

Read Neutral cards level 0-5 as: Investigator is able to include any amount of Neutral cards from levels zero to five.

It is up to you which ones to include.

The little white dots on a player card tells you what level the card is but please note that ALL investigators starting a campaign must ONLY include level 0 cards in their deck as they start with no experience.

I hope all of this helps!


It does. Thank you.
 
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Daniel Schwartz
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Anduin wrote:
Please don't read this to be in any way condescending, but if this was actually your error I'm really surprised that someone can interpret the wording in such a way. This is fascinating especially for game and rules design since the interpretation of such concepts can apparently be wildly different. wow


I don't take it as condescending. See my previous answer about how in my personal notations I use the - to separate one thing from another. I'll add to that I should have seen there were no spaces on either side of the dash so it meant 0 TO 5 instead of 5 level 0. Now I feel like the cereal aisle is right in front of me and I'm still asking the clerk where it is. LOL
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Aaron Montgomery
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I don't think anyone else has mentioned this. If you go to the https://arkhamdb.com website, you can look at valid decks to see what can (and cannot) be done. Arkham DB can also check whether the deck you are building is legal. I won't vouch that it is always 100% correct, but it would certainly help with the basic rules of deck building.

Aaron
 
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