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Twilight Struggle» Forums » Strategy

Subject: Using Destalinization rss

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Anton Tolman
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Orem
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I looked up older threads on this, but didn't see one that specifically addressed my issue. Admittedly, I am still new to the game, but when I get Destal, I groan. Yes, it is great for being able to allocate influence to key areas -- I get that. What kills me is having to take 4 influence away from other areas I am using to keep US from trying to coup or infiltrate.

So here's my question: what areas do you take influence AWAY from that make the use of this card effective? Drawing this early in the game is especially painful because I'm trying to keep US from dominating Europe and trying to spread into Asia, etc.
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Aaron Kurtzhals
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Minnesota
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Finland, non-critical Eastern European countries. Often you will have free influence from cards like Comecon, Warsaw Pact, and Romanian Abdication. Also, usually East Germany and Poland are overprotected, and the overprotecting influence can be removed (you can put it back later).
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Jay M
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You can backfill the places you left with ops points on future turns. Relocate into areas where you do not yet have adjacent influence. It is an opportunity to enter entirely new areas that you are currently locked out of.

Also, scoring priority. Pull from areas already scored and relocate into areas you know will be scored before a re-scoring ofthe areas that you pull from.
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Michael Patnik
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A quick list of places to pull influence from, from best to worst choices.

- Euro non-bgs that are filled with Comecon / Warsaw / RA influence.
- the second influence point in Vietnam if VR / any countries that you over-control due to a large coup roll.
- any non-bgs that don't remove access to a region and don't change domination. Syria is frequently a good choice if you have influence in Israel.
- East Germany if you have more than 4 IP.
- Cuba if Fidel was evented. (1 IP only)
- Poland if you have more than 4 IP.
- East Germany if you have 4 IP.
- Poland if you have 4 IP.
- any bgs that don't remove access to a region and are your opponent is not adjacent to.

There is basically no reasonable board state that I wouldn't move the full four influence on.
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Luckay's Watson
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The real question is where do you put the 4th influence..

On most boards, you have to go one Angola/Zaire, one Venezuela, one Chile.. I think. I have trouble figuring out where to put the 4th inf.

Is there a list for this?
 
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Alex Drazen
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lastchance wrote:
The real question is where do you put the 4th influence..

On most boards, you have to go one Angola/Zaire, one Venezuela, one Chile.. I think. I have trouble figuring out where to put the 4th inf.

Is there a list for this?


I usually figure one in every SA battleground, assuming I have hit Panama with a coup and should be able to infiltrate Africa. Idea is to get SA full with control ASAP and less vulnerable to VOA.
 
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Michael Patnik
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Venezuela, Brazil and Chile are almost always chosen. The reason is that Venezuela / Brazil is the harder region to get into, so this gives you some extra protection in that region of SA. If you choose only Venezuela and Chile, your opponent may try -1 realigns, which can eliminate most of your access. With Venezuela and Brazil, realigns are much less attractive since your opponent needs to be lucky at -1 in both countries to eliminate your access.

The fourth influence usually goes to Angola, Panama, Thailand or Argentina depending on the board. Sometimes you may see Algeria (more attractive with empty France), Nigeria, Mexico. More rarely, India/Pakistan, Libya or France. The general strategy with the fourth influence is to use it to gain the most valuable non-SA access. If you have access to everywhere you need, Argentina will basically lock up SA domination.

On very rare occasions, you may do something like Venezuela, Chile, Angola, Thailand. I'd say scenarios like this (where less than 3 IP go to SA) happen in less than 1 in 100 games, and still may be incorrect placement.
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Aaron Kurtzhals
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I have a game now where the USA headline Eastern European Unrest.

My AR1 coup failed. The USA played De-stalinization on turn 1.

I only moved 3 influence. I removed 1 from Finland and 2 from Poland.

I put the influence in Algeria, Malaysia, and Venezuela. I am don't think that was optimal. But I did not have any "spare" influence.

Any thoughts on a better play?
 
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Rob Stevenson
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aaronk24 wrote:
I have a game now where the USA headline Eastern European Unrest.

My AR1 coup failed. The USA played De-stalinization on turn 1.

I only moved 3 influence. I removed 1 from Finland and 2 from Poland.

I put the influence in Algeria, Malaysia, and Venezuela. I am don't think that was optimal. But I did not have any "spare" influence.

Any thoughts on a better play?


As always it depends what else you're holding. If you had a scoring card, you know where you can afford to temporarily grab influence that can be replaced later e.g. You can grab 1 out of North Korea if you have Asia Scoring, because you can replace it before it gets scored.

Regardless, only sending 1 influence to South America seems like a mistake, because the US can either coup or realign you out with relative ease.

Without needing Coups, you have multiple opportunities to get influence into SE Asia, Africa and Central America. Destalinisation is your only chance to get into South America other than Allende and your only chance to get into the Venezuela/Brazil sub-region.
 
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Michael Valentine

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I'm always re-locating 4 influence when I get Destal. You could've taken the fourth from Poland or, my preference, Syria. I think I would've preferred France, India, South Africa, and Chile for influence placement.

ETA: Well almost always. I recall a sneaky opponent once tried to force me to lose on time by playing Destal on turn 10, ar7, and I chose not to re-locate any influence to win with just seconds to spare.
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Jason Leg
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If I had to use T1 influence levels, I'd drop Poland to 2 and take 1 from Yugoslavia and Finland. And I'd do it, as stated by others, for Brazil/Venez (added bonus is Venezuela scores for USSR twice per shuffle from midwar, so securing this region gets higher priority) plus Chile, and the fourth either in Argentina if I also have/have already gotten Decolonization, and either Angola or Algeria if I have not, depending on the state of Africa and Europe.

If the US opened with Marshall Plan or filled France early, I'm only getting France via Degaulle+AR1 3 influence, so I can skip Algeria.

If they've already spread to Angola+Zaire, the 1 pt in Angola doesn't trap them in SA, so I'd favor Algeria more with an empty France.

Usually, both are not true, so there's a clear fourth pick in absence of decol.

If I get destalinization and decolonization on T1, it's gonna be a good game for me. The Soviet player should ALWAYS be cheerful when he gets these cards.
 
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Peter Davich
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^ I don't LOVE getting Destal on the first turn as Russia (it's best to hold it until the defcon is reduced, the early battlegrounds stabilize, and there are some convenient influence to move). Turn 2 is ideal...but whatever. That's nitpicking. It's a great card (perhaps THE card).

Same for Decol, to a lesser degree. If you don't get either it tends to be a long game...

 
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Michael Solomon
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As US, would you play DeStal T1AR1 if you have other cards you'ld want to avoid playing (e.g. Decol, KW*)?

The 4 influence taken (EG,Poland,Syria,Finland)? hurt a bit more since Europe is important,
they can't go near Thailand because you can you can coup in Asia,
Mid-War battlegrounds are a long way off scoring,
they may be near France if Italy Coup comes off anyway,
and India, while convenient for them, is vulnerable to Indo-Pakistan, and is accessible anyway through Afghanistan and Pakistan?
 
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Al Swearengen
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Obviously what happens during Headline Phase and USSR T1AR1 matters a lot, but I think it's almost never worth it. I'd be happy to strip Finland and Austria and take East Germany/Poland down to 3 (or strip Syria and leave a 4th in East Germany) to move influence into some combination of Thailand or Malaysia, France or Algeria, Chile, South Africa...
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