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Subject: Has anyone tried 2vs2? rss

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Simon
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So you play as usual (free for all) and at the end of the game you just sum your score with your partner and compare it to the other couple.
(you sit facing your teammate, not next to each other)

Can you think of any potential flaws in the gameplay as such?
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Viximo wrote:
So you play as usual (free for all) and at the end of the game you just sum your score with your partner and compare it to the other couple.
(you sit facing your teammate, not next to each other)

Can you think of any potential flaws in the gameplay as such?


I never thought of doing it but it sounds like a great way to teach people the game. Agreed about sitting across from each other due to drafting.
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Bill Buchanan
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It'd be cool if you could somehow pass your partner some cards ...
 
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Bill Collins
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Sounds like a neat variant, although personally I prefer a four player game. If you have two setups, would each couple get the same corp choices as well? The deck would be different but that would be amusing.
 
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Justin H
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This could be interesting to try. Thematically you could call this is the "Joint-Venture" variant.

Initial thoughts:
- slightly less of a focus on hate-drafting, which can be pretty prevalent with the the draft variant of the game.
- Milestones are not as important and/or there's not as much of a rush to get them.
- Awards are a bit more important since they can give 7 points to a team, assuming both players on the team gets 1st and 2nd for each award.
- this is group dependent, but ideally you'd want to have the more experienced players on opposite teams

I'm interested in trying this out but feel as if the base game provides enough tension and feel like there'd be less of it in JV variant. I'd also feel like because it's harder to get a grasp on which team is winning, you either might want to play with the Solar Phase OR have the game end at a particular generation, just so the game doesn't last forever.

The last one could be interesting if say, all game-end requirements aren't met at the end of an arbitrary generation, say gen 13, then game end and everyone loses.
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Dan The Man
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hiimjustin wrote:
This could be interesting to try. Thematically you could call this is the "Joint-Venture" variant.

Initial thoughts:
- slightly less of a focus on hate-drafting, which can be pretty prevalent with the the draft variant of the game.
- Milestones are not as important and/or there's not as much of a rush to get them.
- Awards are a bit more important since they can give 7 points to a team, assuming you award them specifically to players and not teams.
- this is group dependent, but ideally you'd want to have the more experienced players on opposite teams

I'm interested in trying this out but feel as if the base game provides enough tension and feel like there'd be less of it in JV variant. I'd also feel like because it's harder to get a grasp on which team is winning, you either might want to play with the Solar Phase OR have the game end at a particular generation, just so the game doesn't last forever.

The last one could be interesting if say, all game-end requirements aren't met at the end of an arbitrary generation, say gen 13, then game end and everyone loses.


Might be interesting to use the pinochle variant where partners pass 0-4 cards during research phase (without talking, no draft per se).
 
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Bill Buchanan
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DnaDan56 wrote:
hiimjustin wrote:
This could be interesting to try. Thematically you could call this is the "Joint-Venture" variant.

Initial thoughts:
- slightly less of a focus on hate-drafting, which can be pretty prevalent with the the draft variant of the game.
- Milestones are not as important and/or there's not as much of a rush to get them.
- Awards are a bit more important since they can give 7 points to a team, assuming you award them specifically to players and not teams.
- this is group dependent, but ideally you'd want to have the more experienced players on opposite teams

I'm interested in trying this out but feel as if the base game provides enough tension and feel like there'd be less of it in JV variant. I'd also feel like because it's harder to get a grasp on which team is winning, you either might want to play with the Solar Phase OR have the game end at a particular generation, just so the game doesn't last forever.

The last one could be interesting if say, all game-end requirements aren't met at the end of an arbitrary generation, say gen 13, then game end and everyone loses.


Might be interesting to use the pinochle variant where partners pass 0-4 cards during research phase (without talking, no draft per se).


Ya, I think in any kind of team game you wouldn't use the draft rules. Instead you'd be able to pass cards to your partner.

Maybe have 1st player be able to set the amount to pass for the current generation, as you said anywhere between 0-4 or something.

The questions would be:

Are only allowed to pass the cards you just got in the research phase?
Or can you pass any card in your hand?
Do you pass cards, then pass for them?
Do you pay for cards, then pass them?

That kind of thing.
 
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Mi Myma
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Or to start the game, each partnership gets 4 corporations and 20 cards to look at. They can split them up however they choose before deciding which corporations to play and which cards to buy.
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Justin H
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WBuchanan wrote:
DnaDan56 wrote:


Might be interesting to use the pinochle variant where partners pass 0-4 cards during research phase (without talking, no draft per se).


Ya, I think in any kind of team game you wouldn't use the draft rules. Instead you'd be able to pass cards to your partner.

Maybe have 1st player be able to set the amount to pass for the current generation, as you said anywhere between 0-4 or something.

The questions would be:

Are only allowed to pass the cards you just got in the research phase?
Or can you pass any card in your hand?
Do you pass cards, then pass for them?
Do you pay for cards, then pass them?

That kind of thing.


Having the 1st player set passing amount makes sense. 0 or 4 doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me though since there's really no interesting decisions to be made there.

Personally I'd go with: only use cards received during the research phase, all passing happens simultaneously, and cards are passed first before being paid for.
 
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Bill Buchanan
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hiimjustin wrote:
WBuchanan wrote:
DnaDan56 wrote:


Might be interesting to use the pinochle variant where partners pass 0-4 cards during research phase (without talking, no draft per se).


Ya, I think in any kind of team game you wouldn't use the draft rules. Instead you'd be able to pass cards to your partner.

Maybe have 1st player be able to set the amount to pass for the current generation, as you said anywhere between 0-4 or something.

The questions would be:

Are only allowed to pass the cards you just got in the research phase?
Or can you pass any card in your hand?
Do you pass cards, then pass for them?
Do you pay for cards, then pass them?

That kind of thing.


Having the 1st player set passing amount makes sense. 0 or 4 doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me though since there's really no interesting decisions to be made there.

Personally I'd go with: only use cards received during the research phase, all passing happens simultaneously, and cards are passed first before being paid for.


The interesting decision in my opinion is that the different players, and teams, will have different amount of cards they want to pass. The first player deciding how many cards to pass is therefore a huge decision.

It should be pointed out that this passing of cards would/should be mandatory, whether you want to or not. First player could say "Pass 3", but the other team doesn't want to pass any ... or YOUR PARTNER doesn't want to pass any, or some want to just pass one, etc. Lots of groans around the table, and players would be forced to make tough decisions.

I guess that's subjective whether any of that is "interesting" or not, but to me it seems interesting?
 
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Justin H
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WBuchanan wrote:


The interesting decision in my opinion is that the different players, and teams, will have different amount of cards they want to pass. The first player deciding how many cards to pass is therefore a huge decision.

It should be pointed out that this passing of cards would/should be mandatory, whether you want to or not. First player could say "Pass 3", but the other team doesn't want to pass any ... or YOUR PARTNER doesn't want to pass any, or some want to just pass one, etc. Lots of groans around the table, and players would be forced to make tough decisions.

I guess that's subjective whether any of that is "interesting" or not, but to me it seems interesting?


I apologize, I was under the impression that the 1st player would have to decide how many to pass BEFORE he/she saw the cards dealt during the research phase. Your proposal makes a lot more sense in which the 1st player can decide AFTER seeing their hand. And I agree that the passing is mandatory.
 
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Good luck to whoever competes against ecoline and tharsis together, by the way.
 
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Dan The Man
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Mimikyu wrote:
Good luck to whoever competes against ecoline and tharsis together, by the way.


Just think of it as playing Germans in 1943 Soviet Union...
 
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Marcus S
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When I first read it, I thought paying for cards before passing would be interesting. This means you would have to be "investing" 3 Mc on your partner's behalf for something you think would benefit them... Would be tough at the start of the game, but once you see their engine, could be interesting.

Of course, that wouldn't work with if you were forced to pass a certain number of cards, because you would be buying cards just to meet the passing requirement. You would have to do more of an "pass up to X cards".... But I think both would be interesting in their own way.
 
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Robert Schraut
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We played 2vs2 many times and it is awesome.


https://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/1793631/4-player-team-v...

And Tharsis/Ecoline is not that powerful, when everybody knows what to do.
 
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Mi Myma
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Another possibility - a greater challenge - is to make the final score for each team the *lower* of the two partners' scores.

So if Alex and Annie are playing against Barney and Betty, and the individual scores are:

Alex: 105
Annie: 52
Barney: 60
Betty: 61

Then Barney and Betty win, 60-52. It's not enough to just maximize your scores. You have to help your partner when he's behind.
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Bill Buchanan
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Phil Fleischmann wrote:
Another possibility - a greater challenge - is to make the final score for each team the *lower* of the two partners' scores.

So if Alex and Annie are playing against Barney and Betty, and the individual scores are:

Alex: 105
Annie: 52
Barney: 60
Betty: 61

Then Barney and Betty win, 60-52. It's not enough to just maximize your scores. You have to help your partner when he's behind.


I had that same thought the other day too, but didn't post! I think it's a solid idea. Otherwise you could probably just develop a strategy of feeding one partner everything and kind of tank the other partner?
 
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Örjan Almén
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A Draft variant for a 2vs2 could be to start the draft to your partner and then follow the normal left/right alternations.

Draw 4, send 3 to partner, send 2 to left, 1 to left... This way, you can strengthen your partner without the opponents know about the cards...

this would mean that the last card would be given back to yourself, as the weak part of it, but I guess the ups and down might make it work in total.
 
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Wim van Gruisen
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Another option:
Each round, the start player draws 16 cards, and divides them into two piles (not necessarily of 8 cards each). Opponents can then draw one pile, start player and his partner get the other pile. Each team then decides how to divide the cards among themselves.

Outside of the research phase, what would be the changes in play, or in strategy, when playing in teams instead of everyone for himself?
 
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Justin H
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Whymme wrote:
Another option:
Each round, the start player draws 16 cards, and divides them into two piles (not necessarily of 8 cards each). Opponents can then draw one pile, start player and his partner get the other pile. Each team then decides how to divide the cards among themselves.

Outside of the research phase, what would be the changes in play, or in strategy, when playing in teams instead of everyone for himself?


I'm intrigued by the Draw and Divide option for the Research phase - it's definitely more team-oriented when teams get their piles- but I feel like it'd put a bigger burden on starting player to divide the piles, and this also could drag out gametime, especially if there's discussion involved on who gets what cards from the pile.

TM is mostly a solitaire game and the chances to interact with other players is few and far in between, so I don't think there'd be much change in play or strategy.

That said, I think the biggest change I would make is that any cards that REMOVES/STEALS resources from a player would be amended in a 2v2 game so that they can do that OR ADD resources to a teammate.

Another possible change: As a once-per-gen action, transfer up to 3 resources to your teammate.
 
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Örjan Almén
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hiimjustin wrote:
Another possible change: As a once-per-gen action, transfer up to 3 resources to your teammate.

Maybe also be able to transfer cards in that action?
 
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