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Subject: Comic Book mechanic? rss

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Randolph Bookman
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I'm confused. The comic book was going to be included in the game and now it's only partially being included and if you want all of it you have to pay for it? Is that right?
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Michael Servis

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Yep. They unfortunately resolved this by including another add-on instead of making what they think is the best design decision.
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Kevin John
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whatanonner wrote:
Yep. They unfortunately resolved this by including another add-on instead of making what they think is the best design decision.


What else could they do? They are obviously really excited about it and people have said they like it, but they also got a lot of backlash. Multiple people suggested they make it an add-on so that only those who want it can get it. It seems like a good compromise.

Besides, this project isn't even nearly to the point of being addon-heavy*. See CMON or the upcoming Batman KS for that.


*Addon-Heavy: The point where gameplay addons cost more than the base game itself.
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kevinjohn3d wrote:
whatanonner wrote:
Yep. They unfortunately resolved this by including another add-on instead of making what they think is the best design decision.


What else could they do? They are obviously really excited about it and people have said they like it, but they also got a lot of backlash. Multiple people suggested they make it an add-on so that only those who want it can get it. It seems like a good compromise.

Besides, this project isn't even nearly to the point of being addon-heavy*. See CMON or the upcoming Batman KS for that.


*Addon-Heavy: The point where gameplay addons cost more than the base game itself.

that happens if you ask enough people for their opinion, first mistake.
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BG.EXE
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It's only $12 at least. I liked the mechanic enough that I'll back it. I think the better solution would have been making it simply optional to gameplay (which I think they've ALSO done). That probably would have gotten different whining though.

Can't have a Kickstarter without whining.
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Michael Servis

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If the comic book makes the game better, stand by it. If it is a half-baked idea part way through a KS campaign that couldn't possibly be finished and well balanced by production, cut it. Don't design by committee, that will never work out well.

There is a 0% chance that people on the internet who haven't even played the game, let alone with the comic book, are more informed than the designers on if it is a good idea. I personally don't have any interest in comic books specifically, but if you can't trust the designer to make their game then you shouldn't be interested in the game in the first place.

I just wish stretch goals were used to make the game better and not as a "free sample" marketing tool to push add-on sales.

Also, yes, CMON's approach to add-ons is very off-putting and much more distasteful than anything I'm griping about here.
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Nikolaus Garofalo
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boardgamesdotEXE wrote:
Can't have a Kickstarter without whining.


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Charlie Theel
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I liked this quite a bit as well and a little disappointed the negative shouting made them change their mind.
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Greg
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In the KS comments, they specifically said that for gameplay it was completely optional. So I don't quite understand why anyone would complain about it, if they can simply ignore its inclusion if they don't like it.

Oh well.
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Personally, I would have preferred the comics in some (oversized) event card format, as usually handling extra books (handing them around) produces a negative impact on immersion and game flow, which makes limited sense in an addition that should enhance it. For solo play perhaps, however in general the book form sounded like too much work for a too narrow use case.

In the end they should have just stayed with their original road map and we would have seen in the end how it would work out.
It's their game and they should decide on the final implementation, asking 20k people for feedback is recipe for backslash either way.
At some point they will be hanged anyhow, and it doesn't matter from which side.
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Charlie Theel
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asgorn wrote:
Personally, I would have preferred the comics in some (oversized) event card format, as usually handling extra books (handing them around) produces a negative impact on immersion and game flow, which makes limited sense in an addition that should enhance it. For solo play perhaps, however in general the book form sounded like too much work for a too narrow use case.

In the end they should have just stayed with their original road map and we would have seen in the end how it would work out.
It's their game and they should decide on the final implementation, asking 20k people for feedback is recipe for backslash either way.
At some point they will be hanged anyhow, and it doesn't matter from which side.


I see what you're saying, but handling the book of scripts in This War of Mine is excellent. Every time you hop to that book there's a sense of excitement and the huge allotment of narrative snippets in there is amazing. By centralizing that stuff to a single book it takes on a physical presence that's enthralling. YMMV of course.
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XL Jedi
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Yeah, not too crazy about having to keep around a comic book to refer to during a game. yuk

+1 for event/story card decks for this sort of thing.

Is it too late to unback if the gameplay involves "now refer to page 17 of nifty comic book" as part of gameplay?

Edit: I see from other comments in the thread that it's optional, which I would be fine with.

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BG.EXE
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Glic2003 wrote:

In the KS comments, they specifically said that for gameplay it was completely optional. So I don't quite understand why anyone would complain about it, if they can simply ignore its inclusion if they don't like it.

Oh well.

"MY dollars are going towards something I didn't specifically demand!" - Kickstarter Comment Sections
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Jose Olivas
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Very excited to know that the comic is going to be 100 pages long. I will definitely buy it. But given the impressive artist chosen it is a pity that they use an A5 format (too small to appreciate the excelent drawings). I would love if they offer it as A4 even if it cost a bit more.
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Alberto Guerrero
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Pretty disappointed too that the comic ended being an add-on. Now the game is 12$ more expensive just because some people cried over KS.
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Jack Francisco
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Yeah, why wouldn't people want free stuff? Kind of weird.
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tibbles von tibbleton
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senorcoo wrote:
Yeah, why wouldn't people want free stuff? Kind of weird.


Yeah...I admit I was skeptical of the comic inclusion, but you offer me a free optional expansion? Yes! Toss it in the box and I’ll try it out.

This late I honestly think the mechanic would be too half-baked. You spent years on the base game, but are gonna toss in 100 pages of illustrated and scripted story events at the last second? But then I’d also hope the designers would only offer things they know they could deliver and that would enhance the game.
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Randolph Bookman
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senorcoo wrote:
Yeah, why wouldn't people want free stuff? Kind of weird.


That's what I don't understand. Hey it's free oh wait you guys didn't all like it now you have to pay for it. Where is the logic in that?

That makes no sense. I still feel like this campaign is quickly going downhill. Let's throw stuff on the wall and see what sticks but maybe I'm wrong. I haven't played the game and the reviews I have seen have been non committal at best.
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Tobias Wattman Wahlberg
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Why offer it for free when soo many offers to pay for it? Might aswell fleece the suckers for some extra cash when they even ask to be taken advantaged of.
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Justin Strzyzewski
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For anyone that missed the AMA it sounds like the 20 page comic book will be tied to solo/co-op play and will be more of a continuous story. The 80 page optional add on will include random event cards that could potentially trigger during a game and cause something to happen.

I was someone who wanted the comic as an add on. AR said a comic is extremely expensive to make (each 10 pages is 50,000 pound stretch goal) yet then they release an 80 page add on for 12$? Besides that issue, it just seems that for a stretch goal it would be better to put the money towards more variable tiles or objectives. Or better components, my 2 cents.
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Arkard1 wrote:
.. AR said a comic is extremely expensive to make (each 10 pages is 50,000 pound stretch goal) yet then they release an 80 page add on for 12$? ...

well the 12$ are per item while the SG basically comes out of the profit margin + the little production discount for getting more backers.
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tibbles von tibbleton
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The approach still doesn't make sense. If the comic is optional and expensive/effort I have 0 problem with them adding a comic an addon purchase. They need to recoup their costs. All fine. But they first asked if people would be interested in it as a free inclusion, people are mixed, and now no free inclusion? If you offer something for free and only half the people accept, the half who accept shouldn't be told oh, we changed our minds, we're no longer giving you the freebie. If you can't afford to give it away, don't offer it to begin with.

...I dunno. I already had my own thread where I was waffling on if I'd like this game enough to get it. I've got my pledge in there for now as I thought it looked cool enough to risk the cash, but if the price or risk of delay keeps climbing via last minute addons, I'm more likely to back out then dump more in.
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John B
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There's a point here in which Kickstarter is just good old fashioned speculation. Based on AR past projects, I have full confidence the game will be delivered and it will be good.

No one has sure knowledge whether they will like it or not individually. So, you're gambling on whether you like it, not whether AR will deliver.

For me right now, I don't plan on backing more than a couple games this year, and Nemesis is one of them. I have stuff rolling in from backing in 2016, and 2017 soon, so I realize I don't "need" more games. But, I speculated with a few - and have been quite happy. Incidentally, This War of Mine was one of those that I felt was a risk, and turns out to be a profound game experience. And Dawnfall might be a sleeping giant of a game if things go as I hope.
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tibbles von tibbleton
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Oh, I certainly don't think they'd ever fail to deliver. But Jan next year I don't want to hear something like, "The comic addition took longer to produce than we thought so addons will ship in fall instead of April." The more last minute inclusions, the larger the risk gets. Like other have noted in other threads, I'm happy enough with what I pledged for, I'd rather the base game contents are polished and on time than more and more design time towards extras.

Personally, as far as extras, I like the little upcoming ones like the extra item or extra room types. You know they've already been playtesting alternate ideas and adding another card is not a totally different product to produce, such as a comic. I assume that's cheaper for them and more replayability for me, which seems like a win-win.
 
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Will Boothby
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I didn't care for it myself but I had no problem with it being in the game. Who knows? I may have ended up liking it.
 
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