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Subject: Charterstone winning colour tally + imbalance coach? rss

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clinton chan
Canada
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HI,our group is going into game 10 and most of us are not looking forward to it. We all know the BS coach persona will dominate the game.


As such, I'm wondering if anyone has tallied the different winning colours across campaigns. I'm willing to predict it is overwhelmingly blue. This is the second game with balancing issues from Jamey now so sadly.


To preface, 5 of us are actively colluding denying minion activations to the blue player and haven't bumped his workers in FIVE games. This does not matter his margin of lead has only grown larger and larger overtime. Between the personal VP friend engine, robots for free guests / artifacts and the goods for VP building his charter generates and average of 3.5 vp / turn without spending any influence passively.

Apologies for the rant, but I couldn't even imagine redoing this campaign with foresight. Knowing to rush for the coach and VP friend + persona glory. would make for a truly demoralizing experience I imagine. I know Jamey intended for personas to be different each game but between the gaubtlet5and shoemaker it ruined it completely.

 
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Joao Rodrigues
Brazil
Guarulhos
Sao Paulo
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I've played one campaign and the red charter won. Other 2 friends of mine played their campaigns and in their capaigns also the red player won. So, just by that, you see that I highly disagree with your "blue is overpower" statement.

But it is not only because of that, it is because I don't even see this component of "my building engine" in this game. You talk about these buildings he has on his charter, but all of you can use his buildings and gain the same points. You talk about the robots, but all of you can also get robots for yourself and also gain the robots benefits. So, I don't see any unbalance at all. As matter of fact I see too much balance, since almost everything is available for everyone (only your persona's power can't be used by other players).

Anyway, I'm sorry that you didn't enjoy your game so far (and since it is so close to the end, you probably won't like it when it is done), but I really disagree with the 'balance' thing.
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Scott Douglass
United States
Minnesota
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Denying someone just to deny them is poor strategy. If you want to get ahead of someone by pseudo blocking them, you need to place workers onto buildings they need as part of an overall game plan that is efficient.

I won my campaign playing as black, and the other players played red and purple.

Everyone should have a robot by that point in the campaign, so getting cards shouldn't be much of an issue.

Which persona abilities are you having trouble with? Are they always using the same personas? That can limit end of campaign scoring for personas.
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Jon David
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In my current campaign, the green player didnt build anything for the first 2 games. Won the first, lost the 2nd, but still managed to stay competitive through game 4. We only got the butlers in game 6. Up until that time the blue player pretty much was limited to 1 robot because the rest of us keep them. The player I worry about is RED. Golem + the building that for 1 influence and gold gets you 3 resources is quite good. Only now has that been offset by the Green, Yellow, and Blue player buildings. No one seems to be capitalizing on friends. The Black character even managed to get the Persona that when they have used up all their workers they can retrieve them for free. I havent seen anything that remotely looks busted and some of the people with the perceived strongest buildings have not really been dominating.

Johnnymaxx wrote:
I've played one campaign and the red charter won. Other 2 friends of mine played their campaigns and in their capaigns also the red player won. So, just by that, you see that I highly disagree with your "blue is overpower" statement.

But it is not only because of that, it is because I don't even see this component of "my building engine" in this game. You talk about these buildings he has on his charter, but all of you can use his buildings and gain the same points. You talk about the robots, but all of you can also get robots for yourself and also gain the robots benefits. So, I don't see any unbalance at all. As matter of fact I see too much balance, since almost everything is available for everyone (only your persona's power can't be used by other players).

Anyway, I'm sorry that you didn't enjoy your game so far (and since it is so close to the end, you probably won't like it when it is done), but I really disagree with the 'balance' thing.
 
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Sam R
United States
Provo
Utah
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If you’re playing to block blue you will always lose. That’s a given.
He’s going to find ways around your blocks and build his engine.
You guys aren’t building your engine you’re focusing on blocking blue so you play suboptimally.

It’s not imbalance. It’s poor play.
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Becq
United States
Cerritos
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@Jon: I'm pretty sure that's the campaign I'm in that you're talking about, based on the very similar description and the guilds you're in. If so, hi!

Note that the building you mention (the Alchemist, I think) wasn't a red building, so it's just luck of the discard that any particular charter gains that combo. And to a large extent, anyone can benefit equally from that building, since a golem gains the resource on whatever building they play on, not just the Alchemist (it just *feels* like a powerful combo when the two bonuses are combined into a single action instead of split between two actions!)
 
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Tony Graham
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Blue won in ours but barely. My red charter almost pulled of the victory. Blue won 10 straight and still nearly lost. 2 reasons I lost. I should have built 1 more 15 point building and missed several chances to use my personas ability. Had i done those I would have won with red. My goal from the beginning was long term. Build the charter up with high point value buildings and use as many different personas as possible. I made good use out of the extra capacity. I think it is well balanced. It is all in the strategy.

A very well balanced game which rewards strategic play. If you don't have a good strategy then any game will be unbalanced.
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John Andrikopoulos
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Keeping somewhere a poll of what colour won in other people's campaigns sounds like a great idea actually. I would do it myself but we haven't finished our campaign yet so I am avoiding any spoilers whatsoever.
 
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CycyX
France
Magny en Vexin
Val d'Oise
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We are on game 10, 4 players (red, blue, yellow and green).

I'm playing red, have won 6 games and I'm on my way to crush the campaign.

So, basically, no, blue is not overpowered. I'm guessing that in your group, blue is actually a good player at this game and the other 3 are just trying to keep up with him...
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Bonnie Doiron
Canada
London
Ontario (ON)
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Grey won my campaign (and that was me). Perhaps look at what you are doing to build your own charter, I found one game I concentrated too much on blocking and it almost cost me the whole campaign as I scored much lower. I won the least amount of games but the overall campaign so I'd say keep going!
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Keena Grégoire
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As the yellow player, it's me in my campain that have the coach and i would say I use his power 1 or 2 time per game max.(even if i take allways him since i can have 2 persona)

When you have a lot of minion (and you need a lot of minion, they are really powerfull), there is a lot of turn when i want to take back my worker even if i don't have place all of my minion, since i don't want to play in the remaining building of my charter.

Also, a good strategy against the coach would be to bump regular worker of the coach player. It can really screw your strategy when you think you have one other action to do before being able to retrieve all your worker for free (and, mainly, retrieve your minion!) but now you have 2 actions to do. Most of the time, you finish by taking a turn to retrieve them cause there is just no more action as efficient as playing a minion to do.

I really cant see how the coach could be considerate as too powerfull. In my opinion, there is a lot of other persona that can actually bring you a lot more point more efficiently and directly.
 
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Josh Ward
United States
Newport News
VA
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My most recent campaign had 5 players. The color score order was:

Grey (winner)
Purple (me)
Red
Blue
Green

Blue had a couple won games, but nothing super optimal or where he completely ran away with a game. Red had one game where he basically doubled everyone else's score, but still came in third across the campaign.
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Kevin Blackburn
United States
Michigan
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Even if one persona is especially powerful and using it repeatedly helps win individual games, that means you’re not diversifying them. That costs a lot of campaign points.
 
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Martin Jeffreys
New Zealand
Christchurch
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I'm playing Blue in a Campaign with 6 players, and don't find the Coach to be overpowered.
The more powerful person Blue has access to, would be the ability to look at the top 3 advancement cards.

With 6 players, other players get 'bumped' often enough that the Coach doesn't gain a large number of additional actions.

Each of those other 5 players, will be using a Persona which generate more points with many of their actions. It's not clear that the extra 2-3 actions the Coach can save actually scores more highly than the efficient scoring personas. I'd suggest it's actually balanced in terms of overall effect towards the primary objective - scoring points.

It's not even a certain win in Chapter 10. In our campaign I played to win the Guide Post, but that meant another player was able to outscore me for the Chapter Trophy.

It is a bit disheartening to read that Blue is polling as the most successful colour, as I'd like to think I'm playing well, rather than have lucked into an inherent advantage.
I suspect that poll is clouded by people playing with player counts of fewer than 6, where the Coach would be more efficient. In our Campaign, what's been considered the most powerful charter has switched between Red, Green, & now Black.

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