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Subject: Castles of Burgundy or Viticulture EE? rss

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Brittany Anderson
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My significant other and I love Tiny Epic Galaxies, Catan, Five Tribes, Carcassone and Concordia, and are looking for a new board game that plays well with just the two of us, but can accommodate more when necessary.

We're torn between Viticulture Essential Edition and Castles of Burgundy, and are really struggling between which one to get. I'm told the biggest downside to COB is the aesthetics, which doesn't seem like enough of a reason to not go with it, but want to be sure the mechanics of it trump that downside.

Help?

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Ryan Keane
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If most of your plays will be with 2, I’d definitely go with CoB. I like the aesthetic; component quality is low but I don’t care about that. A wooden vineyard is cool for 5 minutes, then who cares. Viticulture is good though.
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Michael Gonzalez
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bhanna14 wrote:
My significant other and I love Tiny Epic Galaxies, Catan, Five Tribes, Carcassone and Concordia, and are looking for a new board game that plays well with just the two of us, but can accommodate more when necessary.

We're torn between Viticulture Essential Edition and Castles of Burgundy, and are really struggling between which one to get. I'm told the biggest downside to COB is the aesthetics, which doesn't seem like enough of a reason to not go with it, but want to be sure the mechanics of it trump that downside.

Help?



You won't be disappointed with either one. Both are amazing, and my wife and I enjoy both of them (either with just us or with company).

I might suggest Viticulture, just because it is a worker placement option (I don't think you mentioned having any yet); and, if you want a deeper game, you can add the Tuscany:EE expansion.

That being said, I consider Castles of Burgundy to be a near-perfect game. I've logged over 200 plays of it, and I still love it.

Sorry if my ambivalence makes it worse. Lol. Basically, you can't fail either way, but I'm recommending Viticulture, for the worker placement experience and the expandability.
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Sonny Blount
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In my opinion Castles of Burgundy.

I'm not much of a fan of Viticulture. The output randomness of drawing cards for so many of the actions spoil it.
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Trevor
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You won't go wrong with either choice.

One consideration is that Viticulture plays 2-6, CoB plays 2-4.

But BGG says CoB is best at 2, while BGG says Viticulture is best at 3-4. Could be a factor if you're mainly playing 2-players.
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Ryan Keane
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I think CoB scales well - nearly as good with 2, 3, and 4. Feld’s pointy salad games are usually like that.

Worker placement games usually have a narrower sweet spot. I think Viti’s best at 4 or 5; 6 is too much. But I haven’t played it enough to be sure.
 
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jeremy root
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Never played Viticulture, but COB is a great game at 2. It is also about $20 cheaper than Viticulture, if that has any bearing on the discussion.
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/|\ Roland /|\
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jerkyroot wrote:
Never played Viticulture, but COB is a great game at 2. It is also about $20 cheaper than Viticulture, if that has any bearing on the discussion.


I say get regular Viticulture and the Tuscany: Expand the World of Viticulture. With all of the unlocks, you will have a campaign to go through as the game grows and grows in additional features and complexity.

My gaming partner and I did this as 2 player over the course of several months of game sessions and it was akin to a legacy game that you can always reset.

I have played CoB, but was only impressed enough to purchase the card game, which I find distills the best parts into a more streamlined game.
 
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Dwayne Bolt
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Castles of Burgundy is one of the best games my wife and I have played. It is best at two, but pretty much as good at three and four. I played Viticulture at a con two weeks ago with six and really enjoyed it, but I don't know how good it is at two. Worker placement, in my experience, can struggle at two due to less competition for spots.
 
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Steven C
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Wow this is a tough one...Both are fantastic games! CoB is a masterpiece right out of the box (but will take more than 1 play to realize this) while Viticultre EE is also incredible BUT ONLY if you get the Tuscany Essential Edition to go along with it. Viticulture EE by itself is a very good game but does not touch CoB without the Tuscany EE expansion added to it. So look at cost as well because CoB often goes on sale and you can find a used copy quite readily for ~$15-$20 whereas Viticulture EE will need the Tuscany EE as well to make it truly great which will typically cost you over $60 for both combined (even if it's used.)

Both are brilliant 2 player games and my wife and I primarily play it as 2 players only...I would recommend that you get both lol.

Have fun gaming!
 
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Steven St. John
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Like everyone, apparently, I can't decide either. I'm still learning both (both Christmas presents).

I find COB to be too long by about a half hour. But I've not played it with 2 - it might be just right at that player count.

Viticulture EE I have played with 2 once. It is a better game with more, but the competition for spaces is still there with 2, as the number of spaces available is fewer in the 2 player version. I do not have Tuscany.

But yeah, like a lot of people have said - both nice games.
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/|\ Roland /|\
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ProudGeekDad wrote:
Castles of Burgundy is one of the best games my wife and I have played. It is best at two, but pretty much as good at three and four. I played Viticulture at a con two weeks ago with six and really enjoyed it, but I don't know how good it is at two. Worker placement, in my experience, can struggle at two due to less competition for spots.


If you noticed, the six colored placement spots on each action are in pairs of shaded colors. Thus you only use 2 in 1-2 player, 4 in 3-4 player, or 6 in 5-6 player games. Thus it scales perfectly.
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Zach Pasqualetto
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At the very least, both games are at least good. My wife and I prefer Viticulture but we have the Tuscany expansion. I think with that expansion, Viticulture is vastly superior to Castles of Burgundy. Without Tuscany, they are much closer, although I still give Viticulture the edge. They're both simple games to play but offer depth of strategy. Viticulture wins on aesthetics and charm, and I felt like it played equally well at all player counts (I've only played Castles at 2 so can't comment there). Viticulture is a much tighter game in terms of point scoring whereas Castles, you get buckets of points for everything you do.

All that being said, I think this is how I would rate them:
Castles of Burgundy:
Viticulture (base):
Viticulture w/ Tuscany:
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chris thatcher
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Burgundy is superb at 2.

I found viticulture ok but i prefer Burgundy overall.
 
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Ian Rose
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zachpas wrote:
At the very least, both games are at least good. My wife and I prefer Viticulture but we have the Tuscany expansion. I think with that expansion, Viticulture is vastly superior to Castles of Burgundy. Without Tuscany, they are much closer, although I still give Viticulture the edge. They're both simple games to play but offer depth of strategy. Viticulture wins on aesthetics and charm, and I felt like it played equally well at all player counts (I've only played Castles at 2 so can't comment there). Viticulture is a much tighter game in terms of point scoring whereas Castles, you get buckets of points for everything you do.

All that being said, I think this is how I would rate them:
Castles of Burgundy:
Viticulture (base):
Viticulture w/ Tuscany:


Unless you're me...
 
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Rahul Chandra
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Both are very good, but I would give the nod to Burgundy for mostly 2p - especially so if "more" players means 3. Viticulture is too loose at 3, it's better at 2 and 4.
 
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L B
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I think both have their strengths and weaknesses.

Viticulture is beautiful and thematic with really nice components and it scales well at all counts. It also accommodates a higher player count. The issue I have with it is that I feel like luck impacts play too much. This is nice for equalizing different player skill levels, but I don't love being frustrated by the card draw for wine orders. I hear Tuscany helps with the randomness or there are suggested variants. I found the game engaging, despite my dislike of the luck in it and plan to get Tuscany. My husband really enjoys the game. I think it's the better game to break out and play with other people while still being really good at 2.

Castles of Burgundy is sleek and relaxing to play, but for me, it feels too easy and just a little too long for what it is. To me, it's like a doting grandma who just wants you to be at home and always feel like you're doing well. After a couple of plays, we decided that it's a nice game but already have other games in our collection that we'd rather play given the time frame. If we had unlimited funds and shelf space, we'd likely own it and play it. Regarding the aesthetics, the problem for me isn't that it looks like a homebrewed game circa 1983, it's that the colors and illustrations of the tiles actually hinder game play due to similar colors and appearance.

I don't think you can go wrong with either. Get what appeals to you. CoB, although I think it's highly overrated on BGG, is a solid game for 2 and can be found very cheap.
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S Squidpigge
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My wife and I appear to be in the minority be we really didn't enjoy CoB. I found my mind wandering while we played, my wife is always a fan of nice components and CoB definitely lacks there.

We both really enjoy Viticulture Essential Edition. We have played it at a variety of player counts and have enjoyed it at all. We primarily play two player and it works well for us. We do plan to pick up Tuscany EE but right now Viticulture EE is working great for us. It has wonderful components that appeal to my wife, is a good worker placement that scales wonderfully in our opinion.
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james napoli
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jerkyroot wrote:
Never played Viticulture, but COB is a great game at 2. It is also about $20 cheaper than Viticulture, if that has any bearing on the discussion.


I was going to say the above. If you are looking at amazon, at least in the states, it's often around $20-$25. which is a great price and great bang for the buck.

I havent found a great solution yet to storing all of the hexes or easily sorting and distributing them but that's a minor complaint to a game that gives the players a great sense of accomplishment.
 
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Pauly Paul
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I can't help you because I want to tell you both. My girlfriend loves Viticulture. We've played it a lot. However only just this weekend we learned CoB and she told me she loves it too. It's in her top games.

I enjoy them both as well.
 
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Sandy Wilson
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darlok wrote:

I havent found a great solution yet to storing all of the hexes or easily sorting and distributing them ...


Coloured drawstring bags. A light green one, a yellow one, a brown one and a black one. Job done.

Another vote for CoB if it helps!
 
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Pauly Paul
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Sandals wrote:
darlok wrote:

I havent found a great solution yet to storing all of the hexes or easily sorting and distributing them ...


Coloured drawstring bags. A light green one, a yellow one, a brown one and a black one. Job done.

Another vote for CoB if it helps!


Like these.

I actually ordered this set over the weekend and I'm excited to get them as it will make setting up so much faster.
 
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Seena J
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Trevor03 wrote:

One consideration is that Viticulture plays 2-6, CoB plays 2-4.


Actually, the OP said they were looking at V:EE which actually plays 1-6 which may be another point for V:EE. I never played solo games until I decided to check out the solo version of V:EE and now I'm hooked
 
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Virginia M.P.
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venrondua wrote:
Sandals wrote:
darlok wrote:

I havent found a great solution yet to storing all of the hexes or easily sorting and distributing them ...


Coloured drawstring bags. A light green one, a yellow one, a brown one and a black one. Job done.

Another vote for CoB if it helps!


Like these.

I actually ordered this set over the weekend and I'm excited to get them as it will make setting up so much faster.

I have them, they're really nice.
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Chris Nash
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SeenaJ wrote:
Trevor03 wrote:

One consideration is that Viticulture plays 2-6, CoB plays 2-4.


Actually, the OP said they were looking at V:EE which actually plays 1-6 which may be another point for V:EE. I never played solo games until I decided to check out the solo version of V:EE and now I'm hooked


I was going to make this point too.

And V:EE doesn't just play solo - it plays solo VERY WELL.
 
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