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Subject: Selecting Wonders +other question Official rules? rss

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Michiel Tummers
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Hi dear BGG members,

1)
i have a question concerning the selection of Wonders. In the manual it is told how to do it, but it leaves it open basically. You can select by using the cards supplied with it or you can choose which side and Wonder to use.
Are there any hard, non grey area, official tournament rules on this? For those who have ever attended a official tournament, how are the Wonders chosen? What is the concensus on this?

2)
And another one, how is the reveal handled? When is the payment for neighbours done? I played it last night for the first time and have to admit this was a little bit messy. Ofcourse i trust my fellow players, but i couldn't check at all wether the payments or whatever where correct or not.

3)
When i buy a resource from my neighbour, for example he has 1 stone and 1 clay. Can i buy 2 clays from him by paying him 4? Or can this only be done for the resources he has (only 1 time, because he only has 1 stone and 1 time for clay because he only has one clay). If the card shows 2 clay, does it cost 2 for the 2 clay or 2 per clay? Basically 2 for each resource.

Thanks in advance
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M. B. Downey
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MichielTummers wrote:
2)
And another one, how is the reveal handled? When is the payment for neighbours done? I played it last night for the first time and have to admit this was a little bit messy. Ofcourse i trust my fellow players, but i couldn't check at all wether the payments or whatever where correct or not.


Players reveal cards, pay for them, then play the revealed card. So you cannot take advantage of a newly played card or income from another player to pay for your card.

Quote:
3)
When i buy a resource from my neighbour, for example he has 1 stone and 1 clay. Can i buy 2 clays from him by paying him 4? Or can this only be done for the resources he has (only 1 time, because he only has 1 stone and 1 time for clay because he only has one clay).


Only once because he has only one of those.

Quote:
If the card shows 2 clay, does it cost 2 for the 2 clay or 2 per clay? Basically 2 for each resource.


2 for each resource. So if you want one clay, you can spend just the one you need, not based on what the card is. And if you want two clay, you spend four.
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Jake Lj
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MichielTummers wrote:


1)
i have a question concerning the selection of Wonders. In the manual it is told how to do it, but it leaves it open basically. You can select by using the cards supplied with it or you can choose which side and Wonder to use.
Are there any hard, non grey area, official tournament rules on this? For those who have ever attended a official tournament, how are the Wonders chosen? What is the concensus on this?



I don't know any tourny rules, but we select randomly from the cards, and then before flipping it, spin the card on the table and flip it over. The letter on the top after flipping is the side we play

MichielTummers wrote:

2)
And another one, how is the reveal handled? When is the payment for neighbours done? I played it last night for the first time and have to admit this was a little bit messy. Ofcourse i trust my fellow players, but i couldn't check at all wether the payments or whatever where correct or not.


The big thing I try to get people to do when doing payments, is the player has to have the money up front, AND they have to pick which player they are buying what from in advance. They can't wait to see what other people built when deciding who to pay (when they have a choice on which neighbor). This is usually a trust thing in the end though.
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Ben Bateson
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I'm very keen on trying a tournament with a duplicate setup, similar to bridge, where you'd get an identical wonder and hands of cards to other tables and you'd score according to your variance from the average.

Might try it as a PBF if anyone's interested.
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M. B. Downey
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ousgg wrote:
I'm very keen on trying a tournament with a duplicate setup, similar to bridge, where you'd get an identical wonder and hands of cards to other tables and you'd score according to your variance from the average.

Might try it as a PBF if anyone's interested.


Sign me up!
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downeymb wrote:
ousgg wrote:
I'm very keen on trying a tournament with a duplicate setup, similar to bridge, where you'd get an identical wonder and hands of cards to other tables and you'd score according to your variance from the average.

Might try it as a PBF if anyone's interested.


Sign me up!
Me too!
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Ben Bateson
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ackmondual wrote:
downeymb wrote:
ousgg wrote:
I'm very keen on trying a tournament with a duplicate setup, similar to bridge, where you'd get an identical wonder and hands of cards to other tables and you'd score according to your variance from the average.

Might try it as a PBF if anyone's interested.


Sign me up!
Me too!


OK, I'd probably need at least 28 people to make it worthwhile. Time for a recruitment drive?
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Rob Haug
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I'll just answer question #1...

I don't know that there are official tournament rules regarding this, but I would just get the 7 Wonders Companion App. It's fantastic. You can randomize the wonders. I usually just ask somebody to tell me how many times to push "shuffle" and then go with whatever it gives me.

The app also makes scoring easy AND records stats.

I think it was $1.99 and totally worth it (though it does not have the Babel expansion).
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J
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MichielTummers wrote:
Hi dear BGG members,

1)
i have a question concerning the selection of Wonders. In the manual it is told how to do it, but it leaves it open basically. You can select by using the cards supplied with it or you can choose which side and Wonder to use.
Are there any hard, non grey area, official tournament rules on this? For those who have ever attended a official tournament, how are the Wonders chosen? What is the consensus on this?


I do not know how tournaments handle this however I do know that, when it comes to which side to use, the consensus on the site is... that there isn't really a consensus. Many people feel that there are clear advantages to one side vs the other but others disagree and I'd strong suggest you not to dig too deeply into that topic unless you want your thread derailed (lets just say it's happened before and I see many familiar faces).

It is my personal opinion that regardless of how you determine wonders, you should always allow people to choose their side. This way the issue of advantage or not is never an issue. If people think there are no advantages they can pick randomly. If people think there are advantages they can pick their side and they will never feel cheated.
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James Nelson
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ousgg wrote:
ackmondual wrote:
downeymb wrote:
ousgg wrote:
I'm very keen on trying a tournament with a duplicate setup, similar to bridge, where you'd get an identical wonder and hands of cards to other tables and you'd score according to your variance from the average.

Might try it as a PBF if anyone's interested.


Sign me up!
Me too!


OK, I'd probably need at least 28 people to make it worthwhile. Time for a recruitment drive?

I'm in as well!
 
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allstar64 wrote:
MichielTummers wrote:
Hi dear BGG members,

1)
i have a question concerning the selection of Wonders. In the manual it is told how to do it, but it leaves it open basically. You can select by using the cards supplied with it or you can choose which side and Wonder to use.
Are there any hard, non grey area, official tournament rules on this? For those who have ever attended a official tournament, how are the Wonders chosen? What is the consensus on this?


I do not know how tournaments handle this however I do know that, when it comes to which side to use, the consensus on the site is... that there isn't really a consensus. Many people feel that there are clear advantages to one side vs the other but others disagree and I'd strong suggest you not to dig too deeply into that topic unless you want your thread derailed (lets just say it's happened before and I see many familiar faces).

It is my personal opinion that regardless of how you determine wonders, you should always allow people to choose their side. This way the issue of advantage or not is never an issue. If people think there are no advantages they can pick randomly. If people think there are advantages they can pick their side and they will never feel cheated.


Euroquest (in Timmonium, Maryland) uses the randomizers for which wonder, but players get to independently decide on side A or B.
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Michael Wood
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I was looking for information about how other people select wonders and I do apologise if I'm taking the thread away a little but I thought I'd say how I've started to do it and see what y'all think.

Grab the seven starting Wonder Cards and make a deck of them. You can add Rome if you are playing Leaders. All the other wonders go into a pile at the side be they fan created, wonder pack, Cities expansion when not playing Cities and so on.

Add any other card to that deck - I use the "Free City card" from the 2 player variant - and shuffle the deck.

Bottom deal from that deck to each player. You play the wonder they are dealt and can decide for themselves if they want to play A/B.

Whomsoever gets the Free City card, if anyone does, has a choice. They can either take the next card from the bottom of the deck or they can pick from any of the other wonders no restrictions and they can play A/B.

This has two benefits. First it means that the game is pretty stable. Most of the time most of the players will have regular boards with a starting resource. You'll get some games with a wildcard board but you will not end up being the person sat between Roma and Pis who has no resources to buy. This also means you rarely have the situation where you are sitting between two wonders that produce the same resource.

Second it means that all players are either playing a board they understand because all the starting boards have a side which is pretty much VP, VP and more VP or they have picked what they are playing so they should understand it.

If you go into the non-starter boards and see Abu Simbal, Stonehenge, Petra et al and you really do not follow what the symbols mean then you can pick one you do understand, or just opt not to play them.

As a system this seems to have got rid of a lot of wasted games where people don't really get what their wonder should do, or the game becomes too much about wonder boards.

Also, we talk sometimes about allowing a person to switch to any other board that produces the same resource to allow Babylon to switch to Petra.

Anyway all thoughts are interesting, if you give this system a got let me know how it goes, and thanks for your time.
 
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