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Subject: Scarbuck's Ship Packs rss

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In the midst of finishing Amigos, lots of stuff got into my head and had to get worked out to avoid a brainplosion. There were a lot of sort of random characters and ideas for ships, based on being able to 3D Print Sandfly and Pilgrim class ships (thanks to Norseknight for posting them on Thingiverse).

So I'll be posting the ships and crews as I have time to complete them. A few are done, and as Printerstudio is running a 20% off for Valentine's Day, I thought I'd go ahead and post them up now.

As time goes on, I'll edit this first post to list the links to the various ship packs on Printerstudio.

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First up are some cards I included as extras in the Magnum PI deck recently. I posted them in that thread, and am reposting them here so all the comments, review, and revisions will be in one place. The first bit are the Crew, Ship components, and the Ship itself. Then some extras that I'd wanted to print. So without further ado...
Scarbuck wrote:
Crew of the Jade Monkey, previously partially found as part of The Three Amigos printing. I moved some of these extra bits around, and I'm not really sure anymore exactly what was where.





The ship itself is shamelessly zoinked from Uniquekind's Overland (https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1709055/verse-expansion-cre...) , with Norseknight's model (on Shapeways and Thingiverse) supplying the playing piece.



Two 2-sided Starter Upgrade cards. Choose the side you want to buy at Set-up, and it's locked to that side for the game.




Generic version of the cat, and a refurbished compression coil. Not as good as a shiny new one, but good enough for a captain on a budget.


A couple more Barkeeps, each of them just a touch different than the rest.


Variation on Kaylee's dress


And Loot Crates for Beaumonde and Meridian. Who did those?
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And these are Gwek's notes and questions. I figured it's better to answer them here, so after a little bit of copy/paste shenanigans...

gwek wrote:
SAM: One of the career keywords - GRIFTER - is misaligned. It looks like you changed the MORAL box. Out of curiosity, why? The box in the template is closer to the shape of the actual MORAL box.

On the special ability... Half up front is a good line, but it's not balanced. There are far too many ways to abuse it. I could be mistaken, but I think that every similar feature requires success (or at least serious effort) before you can take advantage.

If you want something similar, I would recommended maybe "Retainer," where you can take $500 "up front" - but only if you're doing a Job for a Contact you're already Solid with. That way, at least there's SOME effort, in that you had to get Solid first.

Honestly, you could almost keep the full cost when you're done and I don't think it would be too unbalanced.

DEBRAH: Options should probably be 2 Fuel/1 Part/2 Fuel or 1 Part. I believe those are the levels the existing Scrappers are set to.

As a minor point "Die" should be "die" (or, actually, per the strange editorial elements of existing cards "a dice").

DOC WEBB: Despite his limitation, I would argue that perhaps he should still cost 200 (Tech = 100, Medic = 100). I think always Disgruntling your victim-- er, patient, may be too much. Maybe it should be variable?

JACQUES: I think the ability to take 2 Goods (eg, 2 Conta) is too powerful on a $200 Crew. Even though he has to be non-Disgruntled, there aren't a ton of things tat will actually Disgruntle him. If he were Moral, maybe...

MELODY: Interesting idea, although she seems almost more like a Leader than Crew. I'd go with "+$100 per Passenger from Salvage Ops, up to $500." I think this would be more consistent with the current Salvage Ops-related Crew.

THE JADE MONKEY: Does the Dorm count as Cargo Hold or Stash?

"Treasure Hunter" could be a bit problematic. Let's say I get Jesse and Melody. I can now net something like $1000 (with some set-up) just by taking a Make-Work Action. Since I can do this at will, I don't need to do anything else for the rest of the game. So, rather than doing actual work, stacking the right crew becomes potentially the best tactic.

CANNIBAL CHOP SHOP: Is there a limit for this? Does it take an Action? If not, again, I can see the potential for abuse here. Let's say I'm playing a game where I need to accumulate a certain amount of money. I start the game as normal, getting Gear, doing Jobs, etc. Among other things, I become Solid with Amnon Duul. Mid-way through the game, while my opponents are just starting to get rolling, I pull into the Space Bazaar, break down all the equipment that I purchased early on, convert it to Cargo, and sell it to him for a few grand, effectively cutting 2 jobs off the game for me, and pulling ahead quickly.

This is somewhat related to the suggestions that pop up from time to time about selling back Gear.

SURVEILLANCE DRONE: What happens if you get a Warrant? And what does "subsequently" mean? Just for this Action? Just for attempts for this "leg" of the Job, or for the entire Job? Depending on your intent, I may be able to offer a streamlined phrasing.

SHIP'S CAT: I Like the idea. I've toyed with a ship's cat myself (there's one on the ship in the Tales of the Ketty Jay series). A minor quibble: the coloring looks off on the lower boxes and/or watermarks on some of the ship upgrades.

I think the cost is okay, although if you wanted to reduce it, I think 400 would still be fair. Heck, I could even see as low as 200 as a "promo" type item.

REFURBISHED... blah blah blah: Don't we already have this, just with a shorter name?

BARKEEP: On the Hill Folk version, I think the font may be wrong for the career keyword. As an aside, again, where'd the pics come from?

Did I miss anything?
 
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And now I can answer the questions...

First off, Thanks. I love this community so much for exactly this. You can't do these things in a vacuum or on your lonesome. You need other eyes to spot the little mistakes, and you need other brains to ponder things for contexts and permutations that you hadn't considered. Every set of cards that's come up on the boards here has gone to print a much stronger product precisely because of this kind of peer review.

Dave noted that I spelled "cannibal" wrong, so that's on the to-fix list... ::grumble grumble:: stupid double N words...

A little out of order, but I don't recall doing anything to the Moral tab, and if I did, it should be on all the cards. Grifter, yeah, see that now. Duh! Hill Folk tab is the same font. But that'll get changed anyway when I update the template.

I had thought about tying it to a Solid Contact, but then it becomes a record keeping thing, as you're usually running 2 or even 3 jobs simultaneously. So let's say you are running 2 Jobs for Niska, and you're not Solid with him, and you finish 1, and then start another, you've got 1 with the up-front pay (in whatever format that is), and another without. Then you have to remember which one was started with partial payment. Worse if the Contact is Harken, because there are more ways to get and lose Solid with him than anyone else. Full payment at the end with the Retainer probably works actually, except it's a potentially very large total bonus since it's for all Jobs - but only with Solid Contacts... ok. yeah... That DOES work. Dangit. I'm not erasing all that ruminating. I do prefer the term "Half up front" to "Retainer" though. "Retainer" is too formal business. "Half up front" (or is it "Half up-front"?) is less contract, more handshake-deal, kind of thing, which is - I think, anyway - more Firefly-y.

Don't have a problem making those changes to Deborah. Likewise, Jacques, could maybe be 2 Parts or 1 Part is Disgruntled. Don't know if he ought to be Moral? But it could happen. All these characters are from scratch, there's no established backstory for them, so anything's on the table.

Doc Webb: Suggestions on making it variable? He could be Wanted (Practicing <Human> Medicine without a license, Malpractice, etc...).

On die vs dice... That one I have to go with the correct form. Die is one, Dice is 2+. I'm not going to enslave myself to an incorrect term just because someone made a mistake or didn't know the difference.

Melody could be a Leader, the character was inspired by the protagonist from Diving The Wreck - which I did finish and liked - but I talked myself into it being more fun to be able to hire her. Word change easy. I do want it tied to it being part of a Fly Action. Thematically, it doesn't make sense to take advantage of a Salvage Op from say a Piracy Job (SS Walden) or during a Misbehave, or some other similar circumstance. The idea is to take advantage of those derelict ships we pass as we zoom from planet to planet. Usually don't come up that often, (though in the game we played last week, we played with Ghost Ships, and had 9 on the table at one time! And that was with people hitting several of them for salvage to pick up lost Contraband. All in all, there were over a dozen ships placed. The board looked like a ship graveyard).
 
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Ship, Upgrades, and extra cards...

To me, anything that doesn't specifically say Stash, is Cargo Hold, so the Dorms are Cargo Hold. Nick created them, so he should be the final arbiter on the intent, but then, "Your Table, Your Rules", so if people want it to be Stash, it's Stash. As long as everyone's clear at Start-up, it's all good.

On Treasure Hunter: Another reason Melody is Fly Action only, but that doesn't mean there aren't or can't be other Crew who pay money for Salvage Ops. Onboard Chop Shop does. What about if instead of it being a Salvage Op, it's a die roll: "When you Make Work, you may roll a die instead of taking $200. 1- Struck out. 2 Take 1 Fuel. 3-4 Take 2 Parts. 5 Take 1 Cargo. 6 Take 1 Contraband." There's a lot of space on the plate, so the long list of options would fit.

On the Cannibal Chop Shop. As printed, there's a limit of 1, but you're right, it needs more specificity. As a Work Action should suffice. Limits it to 1 per Action, and only once per turn. And what you're breaking it down for isn't really valuable Goods.

On the Drone: You should probably lose it, but I don't know that it'll fit, and a Warrant has it's own repercussions, so it's probably ok to keep it. "Subsequent" would mean during that round of Misbehaving. You're using the Drone to give you some intel. If you screw up, it's probably because the Drone got noticed, shot down, or you had to leave it behind to get away. I think a rewording is probably in order.

Colors of the box may be a little non-standard. Might not be a bad thing. I think of those sorts of things representing different stores or merchants.

I can lower the cost of the cat.

Compression Coils: We do and don't have one already. You're thinking of the "Shiny New" ones. This one is used. The guy swears it was completely rebuilt and will work just like a new one at half the price. Works the same as the New one, but the New one, being under warranty, is Immune to Breakdowns. This one is not. Sometimes you're on a budget, you know?

The Tong Barkeep comes from Wynonna Earp, with Blue Sun logos anywhere I could fit them; the Hill Folk one is from Defiance.

Done. Whew.


 
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Scarbuck wrote:
First off, Thanks. I love this community so much for exactly this. You can't do these things in a vacuum or on your lonesome. You need other eyes to spot the little mistakes, and you need other brains to ponder things for contexts and permutations that you hadn't considered. Every set of cards that's come up on the boards here has gone to print a much stronger product precisely because of this kind of peer review.


I hope so. I know I feel that way. I know different folks play different ways, so it's often an eye-opener to hear feedback.

Quote:
A little out of order, but I don't recall doing anything to the Moral tab, and if I did, it should be on all the cards. Grifter, yeah, see that now. Duh! Hill Folk tab is the same font. But that'll get changed anyway when I update the template.


Not sure when it happened - it may have been something in my template that we fixed over time - but the MORAL tab is definitely shaped differently from standard (or from the current template. It seems to be modeled after the career tab, but the corners angle differently. Not a big deal, but the perfectionist in me thought the perfectionist in you might want to know.

Quote:
I had thought about tying it to a Solid Contact, but then it becomes a record keeping thing, as you're usually running 2 or even 3 jobs simultaneously. So let's say you are running 2 Jobs for Niska, and you're not Solid with him, and you finish 1, and then start another, you've got 1 with the up-front pay (in whatever format that is), and another without. Then you have to remember which one was started with partial payment. Worse if the Contact is Harken, because there are more ways to get and lose Solid with him than anyone else. Full payment at the end with the Retainer probably works actually, except it's a potentially very large total bonus since it's for all Jobs - but only with Solid Contacts... ok. yeah... That DOES work. Dangit. I'm not erasing all that ruminating. I do prefer the term "Half up front" to "Retainer" though. "Retainer" is too formal business. "Half up front" (or is it "Half up-front"?) is less contract, more handshake-deal, kind of thing, which is - I think, anyway - more Firefly-y.


I think "Half Up Front" (or even "Something Up Front") works just fine thematically... as long as it's not have the $$$ up front.

Quote:
Don't have a problem making those changes to Deborah. Likewise, Jacques, could maybe be 2 Parts or 1 Part is Disgruntled. Don't know if he ought to be Moral? But it could happen. All these characters are from scratch, there's no established backstory for them, so anything's on the table.


I think 2 Parts is better balanced than 2 Goods. The fact that he's Wanted is probably enough of a drawback, even though it's not directly related to Disgruntled.

Quote:
Doc Webb: Suggestions on making it variable? He could be Wanted (Practicing <Human> Medicine without a license, Malpractice, etc...).


I almost want to see a modified Medic check, like:

1-4 Crew dies
5 Crew returns to ship Disgruntled
6 Crew returns to ship

But I think that may be too complicated.

Maybe, "Crew saved by a successful Medic Check are Disgruntled unless you roll Thrillin' Heroics"?

The former means that gear and something like Simon have impact. The latter leaves it to luck.

Quote:
On die vs dice... That one I have to go with the correct form. Die is one, Dice is 2+. I'm not going to enslave myself to an incorrect term just because someone made a mistake or didn't know the difference.


I just point it out for editorial consistency.

Quote:
Melody could be a Leader, the character was inspired by the protagonist from Diving The Wreck - which I did finish and liked - but I talked myself into it being more fun to be able to hire her. Word change easy. I do want it tied to it being part of a Fly Action. Thematically, it doesn't make sense to take advantage of a Salvage Op from say a Piracy Job (SS Walden) or during a Misbehave, or some other similar circumstance. The idea is to take advantage of those derelict ships we pass as we zoom from planet to planet. Usually don't come up that often, (though in the game we played last week, we played with Ghost Ships, and had 9 on the table at one time! And that was with people hitting several of them for salvage to pick up lost Contraband. All in all, there were over a dozen ships placed. The board looked like a ship graveyard).


I thought I recognized her from discussion of that book.

I could see it going either way, Crew or Leader. Her ability sort of straddles like line.

Speaking of Ghost Ships:

1) You should have snapped a pic of the board!

2) Any chance you got to take a look at the CanTankerous?
 
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Scarbuck wrote:
Ship, Upgrades, and extra cards...

To me, anything that doesn't specifically say Stash, is Cargo Hold, so the Dorms are Cargo Hold. Nick created them, so he should be the final arbiter on the intent, but then, "Your Table, Your Rules", so if people want it to be Stash, it's Stash. As long as everyone's clear at Start-up, it's all good.


I assumed, but figured I'd try to confirm your intention.

Quote:
On Treasure Hunter: Another reason Melody is Fly Action only, but that doesn't mean there aren't or can't be other Crew who pay money for Salvage Ops. Onboard Chop Shop does. What about if instead of it being a Salvage Op, it's a die roll: "When you Make Work, you may roll a die instead of taking $200. 1- Struck out. 2 Take 1 Fuel. 3-4 Take 2 Parts. 5 Take 1 Cargo. 6 Take 1 Contraband." There's a lot of space on the plate, so the long list of options would fit.


Honestly, I liked the idea of something leveraging Salvage Ops (I feel like the Scrappers and their ilk don't get enough attention). I just have a concern if you can consistently leverage it.

How about:

TREASURE HUNTER

When you Make-Work, you may roll a die instead of taking $200:

1-3 Struck Out.
4-6 Struck Gold: Counts as Salvage Op.

Thus, it becomes useful only if you have Salvage Op support, and then it's a gamble. But that's the nature of hunting for treasure, right?

Quote:
On the Cannibal Chop Shop. As printed, there's a limit of 1, but you're right, it needs more specificity. As a Work Action should suffice. Limits it to 1 per Action, and only once per turn. And what you're breaking it down for isn't really valuable Goods.


The limit of "1 Gear" is ambiguous if it's not clear what the cycle is. Can I do 1 Gear, then 1 more Gear, then 1 more Gear for free? Clearly, that's not the intent.

I'm honestly also not sure that you should be able to break things down for more than Parts. It's hard to imagine a disassembled pistol or a pile of computer chips become "Cargo."

Quote:
On the Drone: You should probably lose it, but I don't know that it'll fit, and a Warrant has it's own repercussions, so it's probably ok to keep it. "Subsequent" would mean during that round of Misbehaving. You're using the Drone to give you some intel. If you screw up, it's probably because the Drone got noticed, shot down, or you had to leave it behind to get away. I think a rewording is probably in order.


The simpler thing may be to make it a "discard to use" card... maybe even (and I'm not sure if there's room on the card) that if you Discard to use, immediately Misbehave, and proceed with an Ace and/or Thrillin' Heroics, you get it back.

Quote:
Colors of the box may be a little non-standard. Might not be a bad thing. I think of those sorts of things representing different stores or merchants.


The consistency guy in me can tell you that each Supply Planet has it's own primary watermark (although there are occasional exceptions), and the colors are very consistent. All supplies have a white (actually, ever-so-slightly yellowish) background, EXCEPT the Gear on the Rim Planets, which have a blue background (I believe Meridian and Beaumonde actually have different shades of blue, but even I can't go that far). Oddly enough, Ship Upgrades in the Rim Supply Decks have white background and gray watermarks, although I'll admit that for my customs I go with blue for variety.

Some of the promo cards have slightly different background colors, and for my own purposes, I've branched out, so standard = white/yellow, Rim Space = blue, Black Market = red, The Quad = green.

Also worth noting, perhaps: some of the non-standard boxes (notably the Rim Space ones) have thicker borders.

As a related point, I think the Gear name matches the background color. This isn't apparent on most cards (since both are white), but you should be able to spot it on the Rim Space Gear cards as a slight change in coloration.

Not that I've spent time thinking about this...



Quote:
Compression Coils: We do and don't have one already. You're thinking of the "Shiny New" ones. This one is used. The guy swears it was completely rebuilt and will work just like a new one at half the price. Works the same as the New one, but the New one, being under warranty, is Immune to Breakdowns. This one is not. Sometimes you're on a budget, you know?


Ah, right. That makes sense.

Quote:
The Tong Barkeep comes from Wynonna Earp, with Blue Sun logos anywhere I could fit them; the Hill Folk one is from Defiance.


Nicely done.
 
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Cannibal Chop Shop has a typo - full stop after transport.

I like what you've done here, though it feels a touch over powered. I like Gwek's suggestion re the Doc.
 
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Ship's cat. That's awesome!

 
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JediKep wrote:
Ship's cat. That's awesome!


Thanks. You can't have the internet without cats, right?

Damjon wrote:
Cannibal Chop Shop has a typo - full stop after transport.

I like what you've done here, though it feels a touch over powered. I like Gwek's suggestion re the Doc.


Noted and on the list. Which bit seems over-powered, the Chop Shop?

Gwek wrote:
A whole bunch of stuff...


Sorry. Internet connection was spotty this weekend (I think cats are to blame), and I didn't want to get into a longish response and get cut-off and have to do it again. I was also checking in from a tablet which amplifies those problems. I really don't like typing on a screen.

Treasure Hunter: I'm a big fan of Salvage Ops. I like the idea of assembling a crew and equipment that all of a sudden kicks in and you're loading all sorts of junk. Like the suggestion. Let's roll with that.

On the Chop Shop: Yup. I'm thinking "As a Work Action, remove [blah] to take 2 Parts."

For the Drone: I'm hesitant to do something where you discard a card, then take it back. Maybe something like "Discard if you do not Proceed past all Misbehaves this turn."

On the colors: I did notice the slight color in the titles, and adjusted accordingly, and went with very washed out versions of the color of the "parent" ship. I think some of the generic Upgrades inherited some colors that I was too lazy to change to something else. whistle


Thanks.

Hey, that wasn't as long a post as I thought it'd be.
 
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Not too much to reply to here.

Scarbuck wrote:
On the Chop Shop: Yup. I'm thinking "As a Work Action, remove [blah] to take 2 Parts."


As a minor point, since there's already a Chop Shop card, if you wanted to change the name, you might want to riff off of Corbin's ship, which I believe was referred to as both a "carrion house" and a "scrap shop."

Quote:
For the Drone: I'm hesitant to do something where you discard a card, then take it back. Maybe something like "Discard if you do not Proceed past all Misbehaves this turn."


I get what you're saying. I think the challenge here is making sure the drone isn't mis-used. I believe your intention is that you send the drone out when you're Misbehaving and it helps you avoid mis-steps. But there may also be a possibility of losing it.

How about "Once per Work Action, you may discard and re-draw a Misbehave Card. If you do not Proceed, discard the Surveillance Drone."

That makes it a bit more flexible as to when you can use it, but you can also lose it on any negative outcome.

Quote:
On the colors: I did notice the slight color in the titles, and adjusted accordingly, and went with very washed out versions of the color of the "parent" ship. I think some of the generic Upgrades inherited some colors that I was too lazy to change to something else. whistle


Just a minor point. I really only noticed it on the cat with the Regina/Altrans Star, which looks very purple. I think this is the result of contrast between the symbol and the background, and also possibly the fault of my template: one of the last things I'm trying to do with the Gear template is get the color right on some of the logos.

I'm not sure if your template will accommodate it, but in my template, the Gear name is actually a "cut-out," so if you change the background, it automatically adjusts.
 
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I'll have to ponder some on a different name. I'd like to save Carrion House for a similar card that deconstructs upgrades - maybe allows you to steal upgrades as part of a Piracy Job. Maybe/probably a combination - Take one Ship Upgrade, and discard it for Parts & Cargo/Contraband or something.

I think that version of the Drone probably does the job pretty well.

Did not realize about the cut-out nature of the text. It always just transfers over as text. Very interesting.

I may have messed with the colors of the watermarks. It seems like something I'd do, though I don't recall having done it. It could also just be an optical illusion.
 
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