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Subject: Question on Oni of Skulls rss

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Larry Bogucki
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There was a big debate in our game this evening over the power of Oni of Skulls.

Does his power affect all the provinces where the owner has any power or just the province he is in.

The card says any where the player has the lowest honor, but that seems quite powerful for just a couple of coins and available in the first season.
 
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Brian Slattery
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It only effects the province the Oni of Skulls is in, and you only compare to other players within that province. So, you could be number 2 on the honor track, and if the only other player in the Oni of Skulls province is number 1 on the honor track, then Oni of Skulls has 3 force for that battle.
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Christian Billman
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The unit's force is 3 in any province where you have the lowest honor. If it is in Edo and you have the lowest honor in Edo then it has 3 force in Edo. If you moved to Kyoto and had the highest honor, it would have 1 force (default in the game unless the card says otherwise - i.e. when you have the lowest honor) because that's a province where you don't meet its requirement.

It isn't in another province so how would it add to that force in a different province?
 
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Niall Smyth
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It’s just sloppy wording, I’m sure. This figure is worth 3 Force in any province where you have the lowest honour. So just one province, because that’s where it is.
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Larry Bogucki
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It seems like everyone seems to see it the same way I do. The guy who had it was adamant that it should give him 3 force in potentially multiple provinces if he had the lowest honor there.

When you compare the exact wording on the card to other Oni cards, there is a difference (that was his point).
 
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Niall Smyth
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lbogucki wrote:
It seems like everyone seems to see it the same way I do. The guy who had it was adamant that it should give him 3 force in potentially multiple provinces if he had the lowest honor there.

When you compare the exact wording on the card to other Oni cards, there is a difference (that was his point).


Yeah but if it gave force in multiple provinces that would be huge, game-changing, and so different from other monsters that it would be worded VERY clearly that way.
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Andre Cote
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soblueLarry, First Thank You for the game play your play was fun to watch and a challenge to compete against. I found the following on https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/coolminiornot/rising-su...


Playing into the "Low Honor" strategy, the Oni of Skulls grants you a tremendous power boost as long as you're willing to keep low Honor (which means you'll usually lose ties). If you select this Monster it can become the foundation of a "Low Honor" strategy that you can carry into the later Seasons of the game. It can also help build up a "Oni" strategy as well, since a select number of the later Season Cards also grant you benefits to gathering a number of Oni into your Clan.

Since it is the early game, most players are not going to have a huge amount of Force on the table, so if you can snag the Oni of Skulls early, before a bunch of Recruit Mandates have been played, it can grant you early-board advantage, which is particularly useful when combined with Harvest (of all things) giving you an additional advantage early on.
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Andre Cote
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Without having seen this strategy before I can see the view that this any battle play on Oni of Skulls is huge advantage. There are two things that temper its advantage:
First; it is only three point battle power boost per battle with only one point if not lower on the honor ranking where other Monsters give from 5 to 12 with no loss of honor breaking ties.
Second; When Oni of Skulls is taken there are other cards in play that give advantages for every battle such as Honesty Two victory point for each mandate played with an Ally.
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Larry Bogucki
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andruid wrote:
soblueLarry, First Thank You for the game play your play was fun to watch and a challenge to compete against. I found the following on https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/coolminiornot/rising-su...


Playing into the "Low Honor" strategy, the Oni of Skulls grants you a tremendous power boost as long as you're willing to keep low Honor (which means you'll usually lose ties). If you select this Monster it can become the foundation of a "Low Honor" strategy that you can carry into the later Seasons of the game. It can also help build up a "Oni" strategy as well, since a select number of the later Season Cards also grant you benefits to gathering a number of Oni into your Clan.

Since it is the early game, most players are not going to have a huge amount of Force on the table, so if you can snag the Oni of Skulls early, before a bunch of Recruit Mandates have been played, it can grant you early-board advantage, which is particularly useful when combined with Harvest (of all things) giving you an additional advantage early on.



Thanks Andre, it was fun playing as with you as well. I didn't see anything in the above noted that would indicate that it would affect all provinces and not just the one he is in. Are you still asserting that?

If so, that would mean that the other 5 players from the game the other night, the three above posters here, and the person that wrote the community FAQ all have it wrong and you have it right. That could be true, but if so then the card is written pretty terribly for so many people to see it that way.
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Henry Clark
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It definitely only applies in the Oni of Skull’s Province.
 
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Sean Badger
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The current text on the season card fills all the available space. I have no doubt that, were there more space on the card, it would start with "Counts as 3 Force..." rather than just "3 Force..."

The wording would then be consistent with other monster season cards.

In addition, the card text is written "3 Force in any Province..." (emphasis mine). "Any" is distinct from "every". Were the effect meant be applied to all provinces, the text probably would be written "3 Force in every Province..."
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A Frag
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lbogucki wrote:
It seems like everyone seems to see it the same way I do. The guy who had it was adamant that it should give him 3 force in potentially multiple provinces if he had the lowest honor there.

When you compare the exact wording on the card to other Oni cards, there is a difference (that was his point).


I am sorry, but that is the worst kind of rules lawyering. I would choose not to play with a player that adamantly argued that case.
 
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George
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afrag wrote:
lbogucki wrote:
It seems like everyone seems to see it the same way I do. The guy who had it was adamant that it should give him 3 force in potentially multiple provinces if he had the lowest honor there.

When you compare the exact wording on the card to other Oni cards, there is a difference (that was his point).


I am sorry, but that is the worst kind of rules lawyering. I would choose not to play with a player that adamantly argued that case.


We ran into this too. It's hard when it's your first game and you have no idea what range of abilities are available, or even how the war phase works as this is a Spring season card.

They could have shrunk the image to fit clearer text (as other monsters do). We also had to double-check that "lowest honor" only applied to those involved in the battle. Luckily, a rulebook example showed this.

I think something like "Counts as 3 Force if you have the lowest Honor in the Province." would have been much clearer.
 
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A Frag
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soosy wrote:
afrag wrote:
lbogucki wrote:
It seems like everyone seems to see it the same way I do. The guy who had it was adamant that it should give him 3 force in potentially multiple provinces if he had the lowest honor there.

When you compare the exact wording on the card to other Oni cards, there is a difference (that was his point).


I am sorry, but that is the worst kind of rules lawyering. I would choose not to play with a player that adamantly argued that case.


We ran into this too. It's hard when it's your first game and you have no idea what range of abilities are available, or even how the war phase works as this is a Spring season card.

They could have shrunk the image to fit clearer text (as other monsters do). We also had to double-check that "lowest honor" only applied to those involved in the battle. Luckily, a rulebook example showed this.

I think something like "Counts as 3 Force if you have the lowest Honor in the Province." would have been much clearer.


I think the confusion you’re describing here is understandable and I can see the argument either way. The argument above is that the Oni provides 3 force in every province (even the one’s that he is not in) if the player has the lowest honor. That is nonsense.
 
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