Lon

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Unholy Presence for 2 characters at Level 3. Card wants you to use its rules instead of “standard rules for playing at higher adventure levels.”

I’ve been going with the assumption that all the stuff under this header are “standard rules for playing at higher adventure levels.” But it occurred to me maybe I’m wrong about that.

MODIFYING ADVENTURE LEVELS
——additional Xp —no need to adjust XP (not that it changes, lol) because I can ignore this rule?

——additional modifications -no need to raise Dragonfire Level to 2 (before applying the default -2 for 2P games)

——2 & 3 Player Games -no bonus 3 cost worth of Market Card swap into My pack

So with 2 characters, Party Level 3, I should be starting UP at DF -2 with each character having a Bless swapped in but no other changes (except Features and Magic Items brought along). Is this right? Or is there an interpretation of Standard rules I’m flubbing?
 
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Michael Kindt Dalzen
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I believe that is correct based upon the RAW.

The Adventure is already Level 3, so none of the special changes for increasing the Adventure Level apply, including gold to swap Market Cards into your Equipment Packs.

I have some questions and concerns about those rules, but I believe your interpretation is correct.
 
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Lon

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daskindt wrote:


The Adventure is already Level 3

...

I have some questions and concerns about those rules, but I believe your interpretation is correct.


Thanks. The Adventure Level is 2 though, and must be raised to Level 3 (and in one or two more failures with these 2 characters, probably Level 4 heh).

As far as questions/concerns about the upgrading Adventures rules, I’ve done a lot of trial runs with and without them—-trying to suss out the best global houserule for making the failure rate less “Arkham Dragon” and more “Dragon-demic”. BCZ has commented somewhere on here to the effect that the difficulty is largely a function of the number of Encounters and I don’t think he’s wrong, though the heavy, swingy negative spin of the Dragonfire effects and the frequency of tokens/summons/heals also contribute. Some of the core rules (one target per card) also contribute to the pain in ways that suffer even more when scaled to 2P.

Right now, I’m mostly using the Variant I posted in that subfolder when I get fed up with 2Player failures. But recently begun toying with ideas for easing up difficulty that scale better and can be more uniformly applied.
 
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B C Z
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level 2:
-2 Dragonfire
Swap in a Bless

Level 3:
-2 Dragonfire
Swap in a Bless
Swap in cards up to $3 total
Undead do +1 damage

Level 4:
-2 Dragonfire
Swap in a Bless
Swap in cards up to $4 total
Undead do +1 damage
Each Encounter every player gets a 3HP/2dam token when distributing encounters
 
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Lon

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byronczimmer wrote:
level 2:
-2 Dragonfire
Swap in a Bless

Level 3:
-2 Dragonfire
Swap in a Bless
Swap in cards up to $3 total
Undead do +1 damage

Level 4:
-2 Dragonfire
Swap in a Bless
Swap in cards up to $4 total
Undead do +1 damage
Each Encounter every player gets a 3HP/2dam token when distributing encounters


BCZ, what was your decision process to determine the rules under Additional Modifications about DF Level are standard (and thus should not be used on this scenario) but the rule under 2&3 Player Games was not standard and could be used?
 
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Michael Kindt Dalzen
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Lonfiction wrote:
daskindt wrote:


The Adventure is already Level 3

...

I have some questions and concerns about those rules, but I believe your interpretation is correct.


Thanks. The Adventure Level is 2 though, and must be raised to Level 3 (and in one or two more failures with these 2 characters, probably Level 4 heh).



Doh! That’s my bad. I should have looked at the Adventure Card to make sure I was answering correctly.
 
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Lonfiction wrote:
byronczimmer wrote:
level 2:
-2 Dragonfire
Swap in a Bless

Level 3:
-2 Dragonfire
Swap in a Bless
Swap in cards up to $3 total
Undead do +1 damage

Level 4:
-2 Dragonfire
Swap in a Bless
Swap in cards up to $4 total
Undead do +1 damage
Each Encounter every player gets a 3HP/2dam token when distributing encounters


BCZ, what was your decision process to determine the rules under Additional Modifications about DF Level are standard (and thus should not be used on this scenario) but the rule under 2&3 Player Games was not standard and could be used?


I don't have electronic copies of the adventure card, but...

even with the swap in we still lose
 
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Principia

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byronczimmer wrote:
Lonfiction wrote:
byronczimmer wrote:
level 2:
-2 Dragonfire
Swap in a Bless

Level 3:
-2 Dragonfire
Swap in a Bless
Swap in cards up to $3 total
Undead do +1 damage

Level 4:
-2 Dragonfire
Swap in a Bless
Swap in cards up to $4 total
Undead do +1 damage
Each Encounter every player gets a 3HP/2dam token when distributing encounters


BCZ, what was your decision process to determine the rules under Additional Modifications about DF Level are standard (and thus should not be used on this scenario) but the rule under 2&3 Player Games was not standard and could be used?


I don't have electronic copies of the adventure card, but...

even with the swap in we still lose

As the other person party to the decision/mutual clarification, it's because the rules for leveling up an adventure for characters and the rules for altering an adventure for 2 or 3 players are two separate sets of rules.
 
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Lon

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Gotcha. I guess the reason I was pointing my follow up question at BCZ was I had agreed with his earlier argument on related topic.

Quote:
p27/p28 may be a little hard to parse, but, the structure is:

MODIFYING ADVENTURE LEVELS
...If playing an Adventure equal to the Party Level, none of these rules apply:
- Additional XP
- Additional Modifications
- Five- and Six- Player Games
- Two- and Three- Player Games
- Two- and Three- Player Higher Adventure Levels (Table of 'phantom gold')


Since the table is a sub-heading of the overall 'Modifying Adventure Levels' section, none of the rules apply if you're 'on level'.


https://boardgamegeek.com/article/27987901#27987901

And his response to this surprised me.

ETA: yeah I lose with or without the add ins, too.

 
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pushed this one to the devs, we'll see what they say.
 
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Jay Schneider
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Hi All,

Please treat "Use the following rules in place of the standard rules for playing at higher Adventure Levels" as only replacing the additional modifications section, specifically only the table and related notes at the top of page 27 that usually increases the base DF level. It does not modify the higher level 2&3 player bonuses.

Thanks,

Jay Schneider
Designer
D&D: Dragonfire
1 
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Geeborg wrote:
Hi All,

Please treat "Use the following rules in place of the standard rules for playing at higher Adventure Levels" as only replacing the additional modifications section, specifically only the table and related notes at the top of page 27 that usually increases the base DF level. It does not modify the higher level 2&3 player bonuses.

Thanks,

Jay Schneider
Designer
D&D: Dragonfire


yay!
 
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Lon

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Huzzah! And thank you.
 
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