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Empires of the Void II» Forums » Rules

Subject: Tan Fu - I catch smugglers trying to take hexite from Tan Fu rss

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Kilo Force
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Two questions:

1. If I roll a 4+ and there are no influence tokens on Tan Fu, do I still get to place 1 influence on Tan Fun?

2. Does the "give 3 credits" come from my supply, or the bank?

2a. If the credits come from my supply, what if I don't have 3 credits to give?

2b. If the credits come from the bank, and I am the only player with influence on Tan Fu, do I remove my own influence, give myself 3 credits, and then replace my own influence?
 
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Jake Staines
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Re: Tan Fun - I catch smugglers trying to take hexite from Tan Fun
1) Yes. The sidebar of clarifications at the end of the rulebook makes it clear that if you can't perform one of the steps of a card action you just get as close as you can and continue resolving all the others.

2) We played that it came from the supply, because it says "give" and not "pay", but equally if that were the intent I believe it suggests elsewhere in the rules that the language should be "gain". It's a little ambiguous.

2a) Same answer as 1) - do what you can and carry on with the rest of the action. It's not part of the card cost - that's one command - so it's not going to stop you doing the action if you can't pay.

2b) Since the card says "any player" and not "any other player", that's an option so long as you have influence on Tan Fu, regardless of whether you're the only player with influence on Tan Fu. So yes.
 
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Jonathan Ence

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Re: Tan Fun - I catch smugglers trying to take hexite from Tan Fun
1. I would say falls under the first part of the sidebar on page 33, "... something is listed after the "cost" that you can't do or pay, you can't play or complete the card." I would assume it doesn't fall into the "Lose something" section since it says remove.

2. It isn't clear but I would just guess it is paid from the bank.
 
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Kilo Force
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Bichatse wrote:
1) Yes. The sidebar of clarifications at the end of the rulebook makes it clear that if you can't perform one of the steps of a card action you just get as close as you can and continue resolving all the others.


I think that is what I am looking for, but could you kindly clarify which "sidebar" says to do as much of a card's effect as possible? Thanks!
 
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Kilo Force
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R3DJ0N wrote:
1. I would say falls under the first part of the sidebar on page 33, "... something is listed after the "cost" that you can't do or pay, you can't play or complete the card." I would assume it doesn't fall into the "Lose something" section since it says remove.


Page 33 just says:

rulebook wrote:
Can't Pay the Cost: If you can't afford the card cost, or something is listed after the "cost" that you can't do or pay, you can't play or complete the card.


As the "Cost:" is only one command for this card. I don't think this covers the "effects" part of the card.
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Jake Staines
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kiloforce wrote:
I would assume it doesn't fall into the "Lose something" section since it says remove.


Fundamentally, the rules don't explicitly state what to do for every single card, so you have to interpret the rules which are there as best you can.

The pay-the-cost rule says that if you can't pay the cost or perform the required actions, you can't play the card; the lose-something rule says that if you can't lose something the card tells you to lose then you carry on with the rest of the card and do as much as you can.

With this card, there's an action which is ambiguously one or the other of these cases. I would suggest that it's closer to the 'lose something' case.

I think the 'can't perform the required actions' case is for cards which say things like "if you build a base then get X" or "spend X to get Y"; cards which require you to put something into the equation to get something out. Easy example is the first-game Arzos event, which basically says "pay two credits to get a good, or pay five credits to get a good and an influence on Arzos". In this case, it's obviously an exchange; if you can't pay the two credits or the five credits, you don't get your reward, even though those aren't listed in a 'Cost' section of the card action on that event.

In the case of this card, it doesn't really seem set up as an exchange that you have to pay for. In fact, it seems more like the three credits is a consolation for the player whose influence you removed; the point of the card is clearly to allow you to get a better influence position on Tan Fu by removing someone else's influence and adding some of your own. And the card doesn't read "remove any player's influence in order to give yourself influence", it reads "remove any player's influence, ..., and then give yourself influence". It's a sequence, not an exchange.




Maybe my reading is wrong in this case, but if you want more than that you're going to have to wait for someone from Red Raven to chip in.
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Kilo Force
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Your logic makes sense to me
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Ryan Laukat
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kiloforce wrote:


Two questions:

1. If I roll a 4+ and there are no influence tokens on Tan Fu, do I still get to place 1 influence on Tan Fun?

2. Does the "give 3 credits" come from my supply, or the bank?

2a. If the credits come from my supply, what if I don't have 3 credits to give?

2b. If the credits come from the bank, and I am the only player with influence on Tan Fu, do I remove my own influence, give myself 3 credits, and then replace my own influence?


This card's wording is a bit confusing.

First, roll a die.

If it is 4+, remove 1 influence from any other player (not your own influence). That player gains 3 credits from the bank. If there is no influence on the planet to remove, you can skip this step. After this, place one of your influence on the planet.

If the die roll is 3 or less, do not perform any of the above instructions. Just collect one random good.
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