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Subject: Maximum Suicide Hand rss

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Peter Blaschke
Austria
Vienna
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I am playing the US, my opponent the USSR. My opponent has the following (remaining) hand:

CIA Created
Grain Sales to the Soviets
5 Year Plan

As I see it, no matter what he plays, he looses by Nuclear War. Is this correct?
 
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Chris
Germany
Würzburg
Bayern
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Whats the situation, how many action rounds remaining, which defcon level, space race still available? Can you even coup a battleground country to lower defcon with CIA? Context please...
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Peter Blaschke
Austria
Vienna
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Does it really matter? But ket me answer your questions:

1) Defcon is at 2
2) Spaxcer Race is available
3) Battekground Coups to lower Defcon are available (we are in Round 8)

Even if he could send one card to space, then he loses next round.
 
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Alex
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USSR has the China Card?
 
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Peter Blaschke
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Vienna
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Yes, but Face Down. However, again I do not see how this would matter.
 
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marc lecours
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ottawa
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I find it interesting the way that the game portrays the creation of the CIA and selling grain to the USSR as increasing by a lot the odds of a nuclear war. Who would have thought that selling grain was so much more dangerous that building weapons systems or starting regional wars.

I guess nuclear wars happen when you least expect it. Though there has only been one nuclear war up until now (knock on wood), so there isn't much data to work with.
 
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marc lecours
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A thought just popped into my mind. In a few hundred years will the "second world war" be renamed as the "first nuclear war"? This might be very significant to future historians.
 
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Alex
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PeterBl wrote:
Yes, but Face Down. However, again I do not see how this would matter.

Had it been face up, he could have played it, then space Grain Sales on his last AR.


I would also like to point out that in this game, as hopeless as things may look, you should never give up.

So many times, I have seen things unfold in a way I could never have predicted.

In your scenario, USSR could be saved if US, unaware of USSR dire situation, plays SALT Negociations, Terrorism, Bear Trap, Nuclear Subs, Missile Envy or even a lousy Glasnost.

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Peter Blaschke
Austria
Vienna
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afafard wrote:
PeterBl wrote:
Yes, but Face Down. However, again I do not see how this would matter.

Had it been face up, he could have played it, then space Grain Sales on his last AR.


I would also like to point out that in this game, as hopeless as things may look, you should never give up.

So many times, I have seen things unfold in a way I could never have predicted.

In your scenario, USSR could be saved if US, unaware of USSR dire situation, plays SALT Negociations, Terrorism, Bear Trap, Nuclear Subs, Missile Envy or even a lousy Glasnost.



It is exactly what you describe which makes me think twice whether this game really deserves to be No 1 on BGG. There is just way to much coincidence. It just cannot be part of a serious strategy game that the outcome of a card play depends on mere luck, ie the other player's cards.
 
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Jim McNaughton
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PeterBl wrote:
It just cannot be part of a serious strategy game that the outcome of a card play depends on mere luck, ie the other player's cards.


The serious strategy comes from dealing with the 'luck'. Given the cards that you start a turn with, your suspicions about what the other player has, and the board position, how do you end the turn:
1. without losing; and
2. in a better position for the start of the next turn?

The outcome is by no means 'mere luck'. In the situation that the OP describes, what strategies were ignored or not even considered to avoid ending up in Defcon suicide?

I see numerous posts listing supposedly appalling hands where defeat is claimed to be unavoidable. Rarely, if ever, is that depressing conclusion valid.
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Alexey Memelau
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PeterBl wrote:
It is exactly what you describe which makes me think twice whether this game really deserves to be No 1 on BGG. There is just way to much coincidence. It just cannot be part of a serious strategy game that the outcome of a card play depends on mere luck, ie the other player's cards.


You'll have to dig deeper in rankings (btw TS is #4 not #1) to find a perfect information 2-player game (I believe Terra Mystica is, but there is a little reason to play it with 2 players). And there definitely are reasons why those games are not that high.
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Eruantalon _
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Well, if you happen to draw Grain Sales, 5YP and CIA you could also play CIA AR1 and space Grain. Or have a defcon-raising card. Also chances to draw such a hand are fairly low, to begin with.
 
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Alex
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PeterBl wrote:
It is exactly what you describe which makes me think twice whether this game really deserves to be No 1 on BGG. There is just way to much coincidence. It just cannot be part of a serious strategy game that the outcome of a card play depends on mere luck, ie the other player's cards.



For what it is worth, I had the chance once to play online against one of the top player (Sankt).
Although I was very lucky with both die rolls and cards draw, he completely annihilated me.

There is more to this game than what you can see on your first plays.
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Moshe Callen
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Jerusalem
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rubberchicken wrote:
A thought just popped into my mind. In a few hundred years will the "second world war" be renamed as the "first nuclear war"? This might be very significant to future historians.

Unlikely. Although two bombs were used at he end, the were atypical of the entire war and many argue that they were not in and of themselves what caused Japan to surrender. As I understand, that means that the situation with the Soviet invasion really prompted the surrender practically but the US having the Bomb (let alone using it) convinced the Japanese that the war was no longer sustainable.
 
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Alex Drazen
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That's not even the maximum suicide hand. That would be the USSR holding, at DEFCON 2, with at least 1 influence in any battleground in at least one of the following: South America, Central America, or Africa (or 1 in Europe for TDTW):


Five Year Plan
Duck and Cover
Grain Sales to Soviets
Soviets Shoot Down KAL-007
Tear Down This Wall
Star Wars (if the USA is ahead in the Space Race and "We Will Bury You," "Olympic Games," or possibly "Summit" is in the discard pile)
CIA Created
First Lightning (if playing with promos/turn zero)


(Edited because Soviet playing Star Wars triggering Olympic Games would not boycott on own turn -- Olympic Games would actually be evented by USA on USSR turn in that scenario)
 
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Ziemowit Pazderski
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buv3x wrote:

You'll have to dig deeper in rankings (btw TS is #4 not #1) to find a perfect information 2-player game (I believe Terra Mystica is, but there is a little reason to play it with 2 players). And there definitely are reasons why those games are not that high.


#4 ??
Why? When did that happen?
I understand that the new TTA's score is skewed by votes from fans of the original game, Gloomhaven is the new smart kid who is yet to stand the test of time, and Pandemic Legacy is both skewed and brilliant, but why?
O tempora, o mores...
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alexdrazen wrote:
That's not even the maximum suicide hand. That would be the USSR holding, at DEFCON 2, with at least 1 influence in any battleground in at least one of the following: South America, Central America, or Africa (or 1 in Europe for TDTW):


Five Year Plan
Duck and Cover
Grain Sales to Soviets
Soviets Shoot Down KAL-007
Tear Down This Wall
Star Wars (if the USA is ahead in the Space Race and "We Will Bury You," "Olympic Games," or possibly "Summit" is in the discard pile)
CIA Created
First Lightning (if playing with promos/turn zero)


AUGH! :O

Brutal!
 
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