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Subject: limits on building to the sides? rss

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mercy fate
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I just recently discovered this game and was playing it with a few others.


the saboteurs had blocked off all the routes to all 3 ores with dead ends.

I tried to dig around it and it started a very long table discussion and lots of confusion.


somebody thought that the the play area has a maximum size limit.

in the book, it shows the setup that you place the start tile, then you count 7 card lengths of space, longways to the 3 ore cards, while the ore cards each have 1 card length of space in between them.

this creates a play area, 9 card lengths long and 5 wide.

there was much debate over whether we could build outside this zone. like if you are on the edge and someone blocks you,

i thought you could keep building into the 6th column in order to go around and get the outer ore cards from the side.

but the majority of the other players disagreed, saying "it makes no sense, why should you get to dig as far as you want in any direction?"

i came back by saying i don't believe that the ENTIRE mountain is only 5 card lengths wide, there has to be more rock on the sides that the dwarves can dig into, no?

we tried looking in the book and....it is completely silent on this issue. nowhere does it state a maximum size.

the only 2 conditions stated in the manual are that it must create a continuous path to the start tile and all sides touching cards must connect or match.

it says nothing about how far you can dig.

i proposed that we allow the miners to dig to the side but only 1 more column which would have crested a 9x7 play area as opposed to the 9x5.

the saboteur (who was losing) argued that it makes it too difficult for the saboteur to win if the miners could just dig around and get to the sides.

i argued that not allowing it, would make it too difficult for the miners to win.



we ended up agreeing to majority rule and playing with the 9x5 limit...and as i expected, the saboteur started winning EVERY round.

then some more people showed up and we had 6 players and then it got even harder, on account of there being 2 possible saboteurs per game. it's hard enough to identify the 1 saboteur. adding another one into the mix?


then another player joined in and we were now at 7, which meant 3 saboteurs.

and then it just went totally insane.
the miners never had a chance, in every round, NObody trusted ANYone.
nobody could figure out who was who.
meanwhile, all the saboteurs had to do was wait until the very end, playing nice and working with us, until we were 2 card lengths away and then bam, dead-end,deadend,broken tools,deadend,deadend,broken tools, broken tools.


coming from every direction. even people who were miners were dropping dead-ends which made no sense.

it was impossible to deduce who the saboteurs were until it was too late. by the time anyone figured it out, the damage had been done.

in every game, i was a miner but nobody believed me...except the saboteurs.
the instant i would discard something, the fingers pointed at me, it was all i could do to deny it and insist i was indeed a miner which only made the saboteurs target me with broken tools and then nobody would use their tool fixes on me.
I even tried putting my dead ends off to the sides in out of the way places where it didn't hurt anyone in an attempt to be transparent and people started getting even more suspicious asking, why am I doing that? only a saboteur would put dead ends. and i kept saying but if i discarded it, i would have to discard it facedown and then you would be wondering if i threw away a good card and at least you see what it was when i placed it which is why i put it off to the side where it wouldn't hurt anyone but to no avail.

they just kept saying that there was no reason for me to,play a dead end ...unless i'm a saboteur and then each round, when the saboteurs hit, they annihilated us and every round, i was revealed to be a miner and yet, every round, i was accused of sabotage, again and again...


sorry, went off on a tangent.
 
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Jason Bush
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mercyfate wrote:

sorry, went off on a tangent.


Sure did. Don't make up rules that don't exist.
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Frederic Moyersoen
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mercyfate wrote:
somebody thought that the the play area has a maximum size limit.

The rulebook should mention somewhere that there is no playing area limit. If necessary, just add an extra table.

On the other hand, there is a card limit, which limits the "useful" playing area. One typical Saboteur tactic is to expand the paths sideways avoiding to dig closer to the goal cards.

Have fun!
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Michele Bruni
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No limits, if the rule don't specify is because there aren't limits. It's a beautiful game, with expansion also better.
 
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mercy fate
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DanielFirestorm wrote:
mercyfate wrote:

sorry, went off on a tangent.


Sure did. Don't make up rules that don't exist.



well thanks to everyone else who answered

but


I didn't "make up rules that don't exist"...

i was the ome who thought we should get to buold off to the sides, it was the other people that wanted the 9x5 limit and sonce it was the majority, i just went along with it because i did not want to look like the a-hole.


the whole tangent rant was me just trying to figure out if there was something else missing to how we were playing because it seems way unbalanced with 3 saboteurs, how are you supposed to figure out who is who, especialy since there is an extra role card dealt out so all the savoteurs might not even be in every round.
and with 7 players, everyone at the table only plays like..4 cards before the deck ran out and if all the good cards go into the saboteur hands, the miners have no chance. . .
 
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Jason Bush
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mercyfate wrote:
DanielFirestorm wrote:
mercyfate wrote:

sorry, went off on a tangent.


Sure did. Don't make up rules that don't exist.



...i did not want to look like the a-hole.


You're never an a hole when you follow the rules.
 
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Nico Robbemont
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Frederic Moyersoen wrote:
The rulebook should mention somewhere that there is no playing area limit. If necessary, just add an extra table.

Quote from the English rules in the files section (Amigo Version 2.0), just above the setup illustration:
Note that these pathways may extend beyond the borders of the 5 by 9 card pattern indicated in the illustration.
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