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I would never play this with hidden objectives (a la Dead of Winter). But they claim that they’re including a pure cooperative mode and solo rules. That part appeals to me a bit, but in listening to their pitch, I’m afraid the soul of the game is Aliens meets Dead of Winter and the coop/solo rules will just be thrown in.

What do you all think? Are the Coop/Solo aspects only valuable to someone who likes the semi coop game and wouldn’t mind a change of pace, or is it likely to be worth buying for just those modes? Does the company have a history?
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The only reason that this grabbed our interest is the fact that there are multipole ways to play it. Semi coop can be lots of fun but in many cases the implementation of it can be a drag such as with Runebound. The ability to have multiple options makes a big difference I think and FFG really made Runebound better with Unbreakable bonds!
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This War of Mine: The Board Game by Awaken Realms is a great pure co-op game, the book of scripts(encounter book) is well written and really brings
the theme to life.

If you plan on playing Nemesis mostly co-op/solo, I would consider getting the comic add-on that's similar to the book of scripts and only for co-op use.
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My case is quite the opposite: me and my group I don't care for semi-coop (being disgusted of the mechanism after Dead of Winter), considering about backing just for the pure coop, not sure if it's worth it, though. Any insight from experienced testers would be appreciated.
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Ghost CoD wrote:
My case is quite the opposite: me and my group I don't care for semi-coop (being disgusted of the mechanism after Dead of Winter), considering about backing just for the pure coop, not sure if it's worth it, though. Any insight from experienced testers would be appreciated.


That IS my case as well. I am not interested in semi-coop and if the heart of the game is there and the other modes are just throw-ins, they may well not work very well. Case in point, I love Massive Darkness, but the story mode is kind of a throw-in.
 
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These 4 reasons are enough for me to my faith in the co-op mode.

1 - Awaken Realms have experience from creating This War of Mine and what an excellent first jab at a co-op game that was.

2 - The co-op mode was revealed pretty early in the campaign and seems like it was planned from the beginning.

3 - They sounded very passionate about the comic event book and that was created firstmost for use in the co-op mode.

4 - They have confirmed that the 3 big expansions, Carnomorphs + Voidseeders + Aftermath, will be compatible with the co-op mode.
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If any of you guys are really deadset HATE traitor mechanics, you can just remove postentially hostile objectives from the deck on your own terms

But they're planning on adding more CO-OP mission in the final release any ways
 
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dsphere wrote:
If any of you guys are really deadset HATE traitor mechanics, you can just remove postentially hostile objectives from the deck on your own terms

But they're planning on adding more CO-OP mission in the final release any ways


I wish I were sure of that. All the reviews and previews I've found don't even mention coop or solo. And they all say ... if you love that "can't trust anybody" mechanic of Dead of Winter, you'll LOVE this game.

I do hate that kind of game ... it's just not fun for me. So I'm not sure about spending the money to back. And then there are games like Colony where the game it great but the solo mode isn't so good.
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carbon_dragon wrote:
dsphere wrote:
If any of you guys are really deadset HATE traitor mechanics, you can just remove postentially hostile objectives from the deck on your own terms

But they're planning on adding more CO-OP mission in the final release any ways


I wish I were sure of that. All the reviews and previews I've found don't even mention coop or solo. And they all say ... if you love that "can't trust anybody" mechanic of Dead of Winter, you'll LOVE this game.

I do hate that kind of game ... it's just not fun for me. So I'm not sure about spending the money to back. And then there are games like Colony where the game it great but the solo mode isn't so good.

since the coop mode isn't in the prototype version of the reviewers it's not surprising that they don't comment on it - aside perhaps of saying that they can't comment on it.

I hope they release a bit more information on what they have planned for coop before the end of the campaign.

that's the current answer from the comments right now:
AR_Jordan wrote:
..
- I'm not sure what they have in mind for this. If there is something significant, sure. But I have the impression they are only at start of development.
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asgorn wrote:
...since the coop mode isn't in the prototype version of the reviewers it's not surprising that they don't comment on it - aside perhaps of saying that they can't comment on it.
...


Yes, but it does kind of deprive me of the chance to determine if it's a good fit for me. Plus, if they didn't bother to solicit feedback or publicize the coop or solo modes, one might wonder if their heart is in them. Maybe they end up creating a GREAT solo mode and/or a GREAT coop mode, but is this likely? I don't know the answer, and that is the issue.

I have the original game of this species -- Aliens by Leading Edge Games (now extinct). Good game, somewhat limited by scenarios to the movie's situations. Then I have two editions of Space Hulk (1st ed came out the same year and was really an attempt to do the same game) and indeed it's kind of a better game with more replay value (but poorer solitaire). Then there were Intruder and Hidden Intruder (never bought) and Lost Frontier (decent game similar theme). Then there is AVP (both editions, I have 1st, not the worlds greatest game, but the minis are very nice).

So I am torn. Love the theme, but not the semi-coop thing. I just wish there was SOMETHING to go on.
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I imagine co-op Nemesis will perform much like Dead of Winter does. By removing the hidden objectives of individual players, the focus becomes the overarching goals. It's just a module of rules removed.

Co-op mode may balance difficulty out in some way by having more objectives for the team, or more consistent enemy spawns. As I see it though, the only thing that makes this game "semi" are the hidden missions. Just like Dead of Winter, these can be removed to suit the tastes of the group.
 
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Yes, that’s one option, removing all the hidden objectives — or as someone else suggested above you could remove all the “bad” ones. If the objectives aren’t bad and they are public, the other players might help the players achieve them.

But the whole point of the previews on YouTube is so you can see if you will like it, and I can’t. It’s kind of a crapshoot for me. If I back it, it will be because I HOPE that they will do it right. If I’m wrong, I will have to trade it away, and I can do that, but I have enough backed games, I’d like to pick the ones that I’ll get the most out of, and if I back this, I probably have to NOT back some other one.

Another worry (yes I worry a lot) is that even if there is a viable coop mode, if it’s not really that good, and I bring it to a game night or a convention, I will have trouble mandating coop mode play. I’m just not going to play a traitor or hidden objectives kind of game. Maybe I’m just trying to talk myself into backing it when I shouldn’t.

Maybe the COOP will just be intended as a change of pace for a group who plays it the “right” way most of the time and the SOLO mode is just intended for those same players when they can’t get other players. It could even be that the solo mode includes a bunch of automatic traitor type players which would be unacceptable for me.

For this kind of game, I want to be part of a team achieving an objective. Granted the Alien movie AND the Aliens movie both had a traitor (the synthetic in the first and Burke in the second). “This facility has a SUBSTANTIAL dollar value!” “They can bill me!”
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I'm also solely interested in Nemesis for the full co-op and it is a shame that there aren't as many news about that mode.
I'm hesistant to upgrade my 1pound pledge to more, because of that.
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There is a report of someone playing an earlier prototype solo, but I can't find it now. IIRC in that version solo just meant you were alone against the intruders. Since all the (hidden) objectives indicate a minimum player count, you would only use objectives usable in a solo-game. Of course this was a 2016 (if not earlier) prototype, so things may have changed.
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Candacis wrote:
I'm also solely interested in Nemesis for the full co-op and it is a shame that there aren't as many news about that mode.
I'm hesistant to upgrade my 1pound pledge to more, because of that.


I'm like that, too. I nearly cancelled my pledge after seeing a gameplay video but I'll keep my 1pound pledge and we will see. I love comics and that comicbook is one of the things that's keeping me interested.. cool
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Im on the opposite side, Im backnig this just becouse of the Semi Co-Op. For me full Co-Op almost always means that 1 or 2 players are in the game, the rest is just tagging along. Hidden objectives means that no one can really decide what another player should do with there actions. If you however are lucky enouth to play in a group where everyone is helping and deciding, then lucky you

Anyway, some updates feels like they have not really decided how the game will work. After reading the comic book suggestions it feelt more like a full CoOp or a singel player game. For me this make me a bit unsure about my plege. I would like them to be clear about how the game is suppose to work and that the main goal is to make the base game as great as possible(including balanced). Right now its not vary clear, offering multiple modes in a game is not optimal, its a big diffrence between semi and full Co-Op.

If you are not sure, wait and see, there is MANY, MANY other full Co-Op to choose from in the mean time

 
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JimmyNi wrote:
(...) there is MANY, MANY other full Co-Op to choose from in the mean time


I'd like to hear recommendations for good coops from recent years! (No sarcasm at all, genuinely curious)
 
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carbon_dragon wrote:
Ghost CoD wrote:
My case is quite the opposite: me and my group I don't care for semi-coop (being disgusted of the mechanism after Dead of Winter), considering about backing just for the pure coop, not sure if it's worth it, though. Any insight from experienced testers would be appreciated.


That IS my case as well. I am not interested in semi-coop and if the heart of the game is there and the other modes are just throw-ins, they may well not work very well. Case in point, I love Massive Darkness, but the story mode is kind of a throw-in.


Katharina Schrempf wrote:
I'm also solely interested in Nemesis for the full co-op and it is a shame that there aren't as many news about that mode. I'm hesitant to upgrade my 1pound pledge to more, because of that.


This is the boat I'm in as well.

I don't know how much it really helps but there is a Prototype on TTS, and it does mention solo (which if you think about it is 1 player full co-op), and it just involves removing objectives. Otherwise there's no mention of full co-op.

I spent a while there reading the rules quickly (I watched a full 3 player playthrough on youtube earlier today), and played a 1 player solo setup as directed by the prototype instructions and... it was okay...

Maybe I got really lucky, maybe it was because I had some strategy in-mind from the playthrough I watched, maybe it was because I drew a relatively simple objective... but it was over pretty quickly, I mean the game definitely had some really good thematic moments...

Waking confused and alarmed (not to mention next to a dead body) I started a mad dash to the cockpit to check the coordinates as somehow I knew I needed to get this ship to Earth. I was nervous about making too much noise but I moved directly and with focus, something had slaughtered my crew mate and I didn't want to tussle with it at all. Mars? Why would we be going to Mars? I stared at the screen lost in my foggy memories. The company. Things started coming back to me suddenly; the company hired me to do a job and I had instructions if it went south, bring the ship intact to Earth, by any means necessary. Deciding that this was definitely south and if I wanted to have a life left if I did survive this then I had better make the company happy. Earth cords locked I rushed back to the engines, getting covered in some kind of horrible alien slime on the way but pressing on hoping the baddies wouldn't pick up my new delicious smell. Making it over to engine #3 I checked it's status: green, that's one down. Quickly over to engine #2 and it was also green, hope rose in my heart but then it suddenly exploded (the engine, not my heart). I must of caught some shrapnel in the blast because I was now bleeding badly. On more adrenaline than anything I hoofed it over to engine #1 and repaired it praying that these engines didn't continue their trend of exploding on me, literally. Continuing to bleed at an alarming rate I looped back toward the hibernation pods when I tripped, cutting my leg deeply, the sounds of my fall and my cries of pain echoed in the corridor behind me and attracted a large alien beast. Somehow I was able to keep cool and not panic, I raised my assault rifle, fired and hit the beast with a single shot. He didn't seem particularly wounded but he fled into the ducts and I moved on quickly lest he come at me again. After a quick rest, I heard a sickening thunk off the port side of the ship, something like an escape pod malfunction, but that was okay, I was planning to sleep, not flee. I realized my leg was in bad shape but it didn't matter as I climbed into the hibernation pod and activated it welcoming sleepy bliss. Everything went black as I fell asleep but: I was alive, I had not been contaminated, and my mission parameters had been fully met.

Now that's pretty good... but not quite great, where I think this game goes great is 3-4 players doing semi-co-op (traitor possible). Its a huge chunk of the design and the shows in multiple mechanics throughout the whole game... solo and full co-op partially neuter not only objectives but also several action cards, and side mechanics for doors, weapons and probably other things I didn't notice.

That said I love the look and setting and am actually impressed with how thematic it felt even just playing solo... but I'm probably gonna have to pass.


TLDR:
The game is really designed with traitors in mind. Nemesis really is almost a bluff/deception game, and its rooted deep into the core design. As such it really requires 2+ players who want that, and that's just not an option for me right now.

Keep in mind this is all based on the prototype and my first play, and I don't even know if its an official prototype and I don't even know if I played correctly... so everything I just said could be wrong.

Still I think I've (unfortunately) made up my mind, hopefully this helps you all as well.
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Quote:
Hidden objectives means that no one can really decide what another player should do with there actions.

I've actually found the complete opposite. In games with hidden traitors (Ex: Shadows Over Camelot) it becomes not only "you should do this because it's a good move" but "you should do this OTHERWISE YOU ARE THE TRAITOR". And it's very hard to avoid; normally in a co-op I try very hard to always give a new player options for suggestions so they always get to make choices. But if I need to find out who the traitor is...I need to push a lot more for people to take the "correct" actions.
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StormKnight wrote:
Quote:
Hidden objectives means that no one can really decide what another player should do with there actions.

I've actually found the complete opposite. In games with hidden traitors (Ex: Shadows Over Camelot) it becomes not only "you should do this because it's a good move" but "you should do this OTHERWISE YOU ARE THE TRAITOR". And it's very hard to avoid; normally in a co-op I try very hard to always give a new player options for suggestions so they always get to make choices. But if I need to find out who the traitor is...I need to push a lot more for people to take the "correct" actions.


I usually house-rule in Galactica that decisions on crisis must be taken just by the active player, and in silence: no advice nor opinion is allowed.

Otherwise, the group gangs up on the active player by saying: choose this option or you're the traitor. It is important that evil intentions can be disguised as incompetence or misjudgement. Anyway, Galactica has other means for the traitor to go unnoticed.
 
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Ghost CoD wrote:
StormKnight wrote:
Quote:
Hidden objectives means that no one can really decide what another player should do with there actions.

I've actually found the complete opposite. In games with hidden traitors (Ex: Shadows Over Camelot) it becomes not only "you should do this because it's a good move" but "you should do this OTHERWISE YOU ARE THE TRAITOR". And it's very hard to avoid; normally in a co-op I try very hard to always give a new player options for suggestions so they always get to make choices. But if I need to find out who the traitor is...I need to push a lot more for people to take the "correct" actions.


I usually house-rule in Galactica that decisions on crisis must be taken just by the active player, and in silence: no advice nor opinion is allowed.

Otherwise, the group gangs up on the active player by saying: choose this option or you're the traitor. It is important that evil intentions can be disguised as incompetence or misjudgement. Anyway, Galactica has other means for the traitor to go unnoticed.


None of that really sounds like fun. I could see how a game like, say, Dead of Winter could be fun if all the players are the type that like them. But I can't help but think that a lot of people (including me) might be a bit uncomfortable if you a) told them to lie if they get the traitor and b) pressured them not to when they were trying to play.

Sounds like an excellent way to lose a prospective player permanently.

Now for me, I'll just avoid such games like the Black Plague. But it seems like you need to brief new players pretty thoroughly prior to them sitting down at the table and then giving them the emotional support to find another game if they seem uncomfortable.

It's not like this kind of game is new either. Diplomacy is the first one I remember hearing about. Good game, used in actual classes to teach how diplomacy might work in the real world, etc. But that said, it's also the poster child for destroying friendships.

Might need a safety warning on the side of the box.shake
 
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carbon_dragon wrote:


None of that really sounds like fun. I could see how a game like, say, Dead of Winter could be fun if all the players are the type that like them. But I can't help but think that a lot of people (including me) might be a bit uncomfortable if you a) told them to lie if they get the traitor and b) pressured them not to when they were trying to play.

Sounds like an excellent way to lose a prospective player permanently.


I don't know if you're referring to my house rules and/or if you know how Galactica works, but what I said certainly has nothing to do with a) nor b), so I can't see where did you get that from, if you're answering to me...
You can lie all the way if you wish. The game has just to offer you the possibility for the lie to be realistic, and defend it like logical to you, and that's what the house rule does. There's no stopping the debate, just suspending it while the decision is being made. Hope that helps.
 
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StormKnight wrote:
Quote:
Hidden objectives means that no one can really decide what another player should do with there actions.

I've actually found the complete opposite. In games with hidden traitors (Ex: Shadows Over Camelot) it becomes not only "you should do this because it's a good move" but "you should do this OTHERWISE YOU ARE THE TRAITOR". And it's very hard to avoid; normally in a co-op I try very hard to always give a new player options for suggestions so they always get to make choices. But if I need to find out who the traitor is...I need to push a lot more for people to take the "correct" actions.


In Dead of Winter each player got 2 objectives to complete. The first is the same as all other players and the second is secret.

If we just hade the first objective, then it would be full Co-Op whitch would open the door for Alpha players. It also makes it harder for players that is not that social in the group(I know).

The second objective is hidden and it have to be completed for you to win. Because no one know what you need to do there is also a lot less risk for Alpha playing.

Yes the second objective might say traitor, that means that you in moste cases will play along but in some way work against the group. What strategi you choose is up to you.

Games like Shadows Over Camelot do not offer a hidden objective and that means that you do not have any reason to not do the best for the group if you not are a traiter. To me, it does not really work vary well.

Both Battlestar Galactica and Dead Of Winter have a mechanic where contributs to a mini goal and this is hidden, no one really know how placed the bad card.
 
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JimmyNi wrote:

Both Battlestar Galactica and Dead Of Winter have a mechanic where contributs to a mini goal and this is hidden, no one really know how placed the bad card.


This is where Dead of Winter, IMHO, fails spectacularly, because the cards are kind of marked and you can know from which pile do they come from, it's public information.

In a sense, the same can be tracked by the set of skills in Galactica, but the destiny deck and the fact some skills are shared by a lot of players mitigate the problem.

Anyway, the traitor in DoW seldom has any reason to spike any crisis at all before his final and only definitive treason.
 
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Ghost CoD wrote:
carbon_dragon wrote:


None of that really sounds like fun. I could see how a game like, say, Dead of Winter could be fun if all the players are the type that like them. But I can't help but think that a lot of people (including me) might be a bit uncomfortable if you a) told them to lie if they get the traitor and b) pressured them not to when they were trying to play.

Sounds like an excellent way to lose a prospective player permanently.


I don't know if you're referring to my house rules and/or if you know how Galactica works, but what I said certainly has nothing to do with a) nor b), so I can't see where did you get that from, if you're answering to me...
You can lie all the way if you wish. The game has just to offer you the possibility for the lie to be realistic, and defend it like logical to you, and that's what the house rule does. There's no stopping the debate, just suspending it while the decision is being made. Hope that helps.


No wasn't referring to your house rule. I'm just saying not everyone is up for traitor mechanics and even if you are (which is fine), maybe it should be taken with care, especially with new gamers.
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