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Mythic Battles: Pantheon» Forums » General

Subject: MBP vs Conan: How Do They Compare? rss

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Gustavo Sanchez
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I realize they're very different games, but I saw this being discussed on another site and it made me wonder.

Which is more tactical?
Which is more luck-based?
Which is more fun?
 
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Aditya C
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The luck is a bit different. Conan's dice mechanic is a lot more luck-based than MBP but the card mechanic adds a bit of luck to MBP. I would say that MBP is more tactical due to the lack of preset starting conditions in terms of unit placement.

Fun is a subjective. They're both for different purposes for me.
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J P
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Caibre wrote:
The luck is a bit different. Conan's dice mechanic is a lot more luck-based than MBP but the card mechanic adds a bit of luck to MBP. I would say that MBP is more tactical due to the lack of preset starting conditions in terms of unit placement.

Fun is a subjective. They're both for different purposes for me.


I would agree with this for the same reasons. MBP is more tactical, at least if playing the skirmish mode. I can’t comment on the scenarios, as I’ve only played 2 solo ones so far. Conan is slightly more luck based (Conan still has ways to mitigate this by paying for rerolls though). They’re both equally fun and both 10s for me!
 
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Miles Stevenson
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I went all-in on both. So far I'm less enthusiastic about MBP than Conan. I feel like the scenario design in MBP is lacking so far.

I've played a few Conan scenarios that I don't think are balanced very well, but they have been far more interesting overall than MBP. The Omphalos race that most of our games have turned into have left most of my group feeling underwhelmed.

I do want to point out that there is still a LOT of things I haven't tried yet with MBP. We haven't played any of the campaigns, and there are tons of units that we haven't explored yet, nor have we played on all the different maps. I think collectively my group may have 6-8 games under our belts.

But we didn't have this problem with Conan. The very first scenario we found exciting and immediately looked forward to our next game. After our first few games of MBP, I was a little concerned and that feeling is still there. Don't get me wrong, there is a lot that I really like about MBP (other than the components), but I'm not convinced yet that it's a game that will stay in my collection indefinitely.

It's a shame, because I have a LOT of boxes on my shelf full of very well sculpted miniatures. :o
 
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Gustavo Sanchez
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warfinger wrote:
The Omphalos race that most of our games have turned into have left most of my group feeling underwhelmed.


I'd highly recommend trying the "remove one or two omphalos" house rule. I played a 4 player FFA skirmish today and removed 2 omphalos from the setup. The ending was close, tight, and very tense. Everyone enjoyed it.

Contrast that with the first 4 player game I played, and one of the players said "I like it, but I think there were too many omphalos on the board." Little did he know this was a common, and easily remedied criticism, online.
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s alvooch
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warfinger wrote:
The Omphalos race that most of our games have turned into have left most of my group feeling underwhelmed.


Agree - we usually have 3 players, 2 get tangled up and 1 runs around collecting Omphalos. We usually do the 'house rule' (mentioned ^) where we remove some to try and make the fighting spread across the board.


warfighter wrote:
But we didn't have this problem with Conan. The very first scenario we found exciting and immediately looked forward to our next game.


Also agree - we were pretty pumped to keep playing scenarios, create some on our own and try to balance them out, etc... But, the people I play with really like the tactical side of MBP where it feels like you have more control over your 'squad' of recruited units, vs those prescribed in the Conan scenarios. Swapping out heroes in Conan tends to upset the balance of the scenario (despite the various balancing spreadsheets I've downloaded from BGG and tried out - they do help, but not always keep it balanced).
 
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Miles Stevenson
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nexbot wrote:

I'd highly recommend trying the "remove one or two omphalos" house rule. I played a 4 player FFA skirmish today and removed 2 omphalos from the setup. The ending was close, tight, and very tense. Everyone enjoyed it.


Yeah I hear you. We did that as well after our very first game. I think it goes to show how weak the scenario design is in this game though.

We also found the "Struggle for the Underworld" scenario to imbalanced. We played it twice back to back and didn't see how the player controlling Hades could ever hold off the other player and win.

Last time we played, we randomly selected a map and played a 3 player FFA skirmish. We diced for picking start positions and I got last pick, and was forced to take this painfully awful starting position that was completely surrounded by lava. I was immediately at a huge disadvantage compared to the other two players and had no chance of being relevant in the game. After my deity took 3 damage just crossing the lava, both players pounced and finished the job. I was eliminated within a few turns.

I'm not saying that just because we had a bad experience that the game is un-balanced. But the fact that we didn't get off to a great start has greatly affected my groups' interest continuing to play it when there are so many other alternatives.

On the bright side, if it does turn out that most of the scenarios created by Monolith/Mythic just aren't very good, then I'm hopeful the community will step up to fill that gap. They certainly did with Conan.
 
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Geoff ...
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To those dissatisfied with the game, especially the Omphalos runs - I really think this is a 2 player game (4 with teams), and MB just did whatever they could to broaden their consumer base by making it 2+.

I can’t speak for scenario imbalance as we’ve only played 2P skirmish but in every game a God kill was the outcome and the games were tense and great fun.

The scenarios as well as 3P+ games are likely very problematic, but then again MG rushed this game out in record time so that they could move onto JoA and something’s gotta give. I think the numerous, obvious typos and errors in the rulebook is a good example of this.

I really love the game but I dislike this rushing of tons and TONS of content out the door at the expense of QC and playtesting, both of which probably take quite a lot of time to do well.

I fear JoA, which looks like more complicated KS than MBP and is not based on a proven engine like MPB was, will be even more problematic.
 
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J P
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warfinger wrote:

Last time we played, we randomly selected a map and played a 3 player FFA skirmish. We diced for picking start positions and I got last pick, and was forced to take this painfully awful starting position that was completely surrounded by lava. I was immediately at a huge disadvantage compared to the other two players and had no chance of being relevant in the game. After my deity took 3 damage just crossing the lava, both players pounced and finished the job. I was eliminated within a few turns.



Did you draft before picking the map? I would think that map selection should come first. Knowing you're using a map with lava, you would then know to draft as many fireproof or flying units as you could.
 
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Jens Larsen
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DancingFool wrote:
warfinger wrote:

Last time we played, we randomly selected a map and played a 3 player FFA skirmish. We diced for picking start positions and I got last pick, and was forced to take this painfully awful starting position that was completely surrounded by lava. I was immediately at a huge disadvantage compared to the other two players and had no chance of being relevant in the game. After my deity took 3 damage just crossing the lava, both players pounced and finished the job. I was eliminated within a few turns.



Did you draft before picking the map? I would think that map selection should come first. Knowing you're using a map with lava, you would then know to draft as many fireproof or flying units as you could.


Also, the rules for dormant lava has changed dramatically when you compare the rulebook and the play video with Beasts of War on the volcano map. I suspect the rules in the rulebook for dormant lava is a big error. I believe they were to be much as in the video, except that it should indeed be the opponent who decides where a unit that got thrown into the lava must crawl up. We played it like that and it was great fun. The “lava locked” islands etc were then valid areas to go to, you just need to make sure you have enough movement to cross the lava safely.
 
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Miles Stevenson
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For those that asked, I believe we drafted our units before we picked the map, which could have made a big difference. I wasn't aware of the rules changes for dormant lava.

Poor rules quality is another issue with MBP. It's not anything bordering on "un-playable" the way Myth was, but just like Conan, Mythic/Monolith seem to be to be not so skilled at clean, clear, optimized rules. I'm sure we'll eventually get a 2.0 rules update just like we did with Conan, which will help a little.

I think the core game elements of MBP are solid. Between the activation card play, unit abilities & interactions, combat dice, and terrain interactions, I think it's a very solid mix of depth to complexity. I think those parts compare nicely to other tactical miniatures games that I enjoy, like Dust 1947, Imperial Assault Skirmish, Infinity, and Earth Reborn.

Where it all falls apart for me is the scenarios. I just don't think scenarios are anywhere near as good as any of those other games. So if I'm playing 1v1 miniatures skirmish games, it's more likely that I'd rather play IA, Dust, or Infinity than MBP.

Luckily, I don't think any of the issues I have with MBP aren't fixable.
 
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Gustavo Sanchez
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Sorry to hear about that. Honestly I've never tried any scenario other than teams and ffa skirmish, but I suspected sight unseen that they may have been rushed.

I also agree with you that the rules could have been polished a little more, though it seems they're better than Conan v1.0 rules were (I've never tried that game).

I'm hoping they clear up some of the rules/release the FAQ and fix the stat clips. That for me would make me happy.
 
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Geoff ...
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I think the rules are very easy to read and understand. They’re well written IMHO. My wife and I were able to get a game up and running in no time.

What lets them down is the apparent lack of QC (blatant typos and repeated words on the very first page — does Quirkworthy not bother with a spell-checker?). Same can be said for all the production problems (stat clips cutouts too wide etc). Really wish they didn’t rush the production and let this bake another month or two. There’ll probably be an inevitable KS2 which will have everything fixed.

Sucks to be an early supporter.

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I.M. Jeremic
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I think MBP works as a skirmish game first Conan of course is scenario based. I think MBP is perfect for what it does Conan not as much.
 
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