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Battlegroup Kursk» Forums » Rules

Subject: Battlegroup Kursk and Chain of Command rss

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Bruno Gonzaga
Portugal
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Hi!
I was looking in the web for some comparatives between these two game systems, but I couldn't find anything.
For those of you who already played these two systems, how do they compare to each other?
I'm not asking if one is better than the other, only want to know the main differences between both systems, game mechanics, easy to learn etc...


Thanks in advance!
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Eddie Carlson
United States
Clarksville
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I will try to keep it simple as the two games are very different. CoC is reinforced platoon game and Kursk is very much platoon to company sized battles.
In CoC, you will pick your platoon of usually 4 squads and one or a couple more support options based on difference of army quality. In Kursk, there is a detailed point and BR rating system used to build your battle group. With Kursk, you can start around a platoon of infantry, but, you add supporting platoons, so game sized can escalate quickly, while CoC tries to keep it smaller.
For game play, CoC is much more intimate with focus on shock, suppression and pinning of squads and teams. Kursk is more focused larger strategic movement of several squads and units in a turn.
CoC uses dice to determine if you activate leaders, teams or squads. Kursk uses a few determined dice to indicate how many units to activate on your turn.
CoC uses dice rolls to determine random movement distances, Kursk uses traditional assigned distances.

So to keep it short, it really depends on what size of game you want to replicate. CoC is commonly played in 28 mm as it is a platoon game and Kursk is commonly played in 20mm as it is a company level game.

I'm sure others will have more varied opinions as well.
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Padraic Kirby
United States
Crown Point
Indiana
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My 2 cents worth.

I have played both but each only a couple of times. Both are really mini scale agnostic. You can play either with any scale minis. I have the following:

6mm Commonwealth v German Western Desert 1941-1942
15mm US v German Normandy 1944
20mm British v German - Normandy 1944

All these work with both rules sets.

CoC:

What I like abour CoC is the patrol pregame phase. This makes each game setup different and unpredictable. It also gives you the flavor of your commander being a 23 year old LT supported by a more experienced NCO. I also like the reducing morale track as "S**t Happens" to your force during the game. No fighting to the death here.

What I do not like is that it is really designed as a 2 player game by default but there is a free supplement "Big Chain of Command" to allow more players to play commanding platoons of their own alongside yours. This I have not tested yet but did play in a Spanish Civil War game put on by friends where it worked well.

Also CoC is a very cheap rule set given you get most of the armies info as free downloads. You just buy the Main Rules. Kudos to TooFatLardies for that.

Battlefront:Kursk

What I like about Battlefront:Kursk, etc is that it has a reducing morale balance like CoC so nobody is fighting to the last man. Good detailed Fire systems differentiating direct fire from Suppressive fire ( CoC also allows this too). Suppression is the key goal here as a suppressed unit does nothing until given a rally order out of suppression. To give this order the Morale balance is reduced. Dilemma, do you use commands to press your fresh troops or use commands to try to get suppressed units moving again.

Not so good is that the printed ranges in the rules look too short for use with 20mm+ on a 4'x6' table, but perfect for 15mm or 6mm as printed. Also each supplement costs extra and some have gone out of print. I have the ones I want and they are chock full of info. Good news is the Core Rules are now available as a cheaper separate book.

So if starting small with 2 players I would go with the cheaper CoC then use the same minis to expand to bigger 4 - 6 player battles with Battlegroup:Kursk, etc.

Great we have both.

Pat





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Robert Hawkins
United States
Mooresville
North Carolina
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I echo the comments already made. I play and love both systems, with my preferred scale for both being 15mm (the ranges feel more appropriate). CoC is a bit heavier on rules than Battlegroup, but only marginally. Leaders are the focal point in CoC - they drive virtually every aspect of the game. BG has its core built around historical formations and how those itereact with each other. As said above, CoC gives a more intimate game and its sweet spot is platoon vs platoon (each with with a small amount of support). BG goes a bit larger, with ease, and supports company-sized actions with no loss in playability.

I’d play either system any day. Get both! 😄
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Bruno Gonzaga
Portugal
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Thank you all!
 
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Michael teems
United States
Tennessee
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I've played a few games of BG Kursk.

I can't help with the other.

BG is unique to me vs games like Bolt Action if you've played it.

BG uses a BattleRating that is a sum of points from units you take (note not all units have BR ratings). Upon certain events like unit loss, air attack, issuing rally orders, or objectives being taken by enemy for example will require you to draw a counter. These counters have numbers and special events like air strike, out of ammo, etc. so there is an element of chance that taking a counter isn't necessarily bad for you although the majority of the time it is.

The game system has several mechanics that allow for opposing side to interrupt your turn.

IMO, BG Kursk is best intended for large scale company to battalion level engagements.

Learning Requirements, i would suggest start small and go sparingly with units for 1 to 2 games. You will find that the rules are repetitive and although it may appear to have large amounts of data your chief concern will be to identify what you don't need to know and what little information is truthfully required for vehicle combat. It's actually an easy system that is fleshed out sufficiently.
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