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Subject: Infinite Turns / Infinite Actions rss

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Benjamin Klahn
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Hi Guys, I'm reading in some forums that the rules were changed and now you can take any number of actions each generation.

Can someone show me where it says this in the rules? We've played this game like 20 times and we always play where each person gets 2 actions per turn and that's it.

The rules say:

3) Action phase (see page 9)
Players take 1 or 2 actions each turn, or pass. Play
proceeds clockwise around the table until all players have
passed. The actions may be combined in any way the player
chooses. The available actions are:
A) Play a card from your hand (see page 9).
B) Use a standard project (see page 10).
C) Claim a milestone (see page 10).
D) Fund an award (page 11).
E) Use the action on a blue card (see page 11).
F) Convert 8 plants into a greenery tile (which gives an oxygen
increase) as described on the player board (see page 11).
G) Convert 8 heat into a temperature increase as described
on the player board (see page 11).
You can choose to take 1 or 2 actions on your
turn. If you take no action at all (pass), you are out of
the round and may not take any anymore actions this
generation. When everyone has passed, the action phase
ends.


So which is it, do players get 2 actions per turn or do they get unlimited actions each turn? Can you show me where to find the updated rules? This is what comes up when I do a google search and it clearly says 2 actions per turn and that's it.
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Peter Bakija
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kodemage wrote:

Hi Guys, I'm reading in some forums that the rules were changed and now you can take any number of actions each generation.


You can always take any number of actions each generation. The rules have always been that way. Nothing has been changed.

On your turn in a given generation, you take 1 or 2 actions. Then the next time it is your turn that generation, you take 1 or 2 actions. That keeps going until you pass out. You can, in theory, take infinite actions in a given generation (but in practice, that is impossible, as all actions require some sort of resource use).

Quote:
Can someone show me where it says this in the rules? We've played this game like 20 times and we always play where each person gets 2 actions per turn and that's it.


That makes this game infinitely difficult. And isn't how it works.

As the rules you quoted state, players take 1 or 2 actions each turn, or pass. Play proceeds clockwise until all players have passed.

You don't pass if you have actions to take. So whenever it is your turn in a given generation, you take 1 or 2 actions. Or you pass. If you haven't passed, you take 1 or 2 actions. And you keep doing that. Until you pass.
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Peter Bakija
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If it makes you feel better, here is the FAQ. Pinned to the top of this very forum page. Where you posted this question. Right under the FAQ.

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1705209/official-faq-rules-...
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Matthew Burgess
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To the best of my knowledge, you play up to two actions, then it's the next person's go. But in the same round, it'll be your go again, and you'll get another up to two actions (or pass). If everyone else passes in the same round and it's still your go, you can then take as many actions as you want until you pass (essentially taking two goes repeatedly, but skipping everyone else's goes because they passed).
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Des Lee
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The rules were never changed. You could ALWAYS take as many actions as you like per generation.

You take 1 or 2 actions for your turn, but you can take multiple turns in a generation. Are you confusing "turn" with "generation"?
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Nico
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By taking only 2 actions per generation your income would be nearly unlimited and you could play any card you want. This way it would only come down to the luck of the draw.
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Marcus S
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ZdadrDeM wrote:
By taking only 2 actions per generation your income would be nearly unlimited and you could play any card you want.

Most people come to the realization they are doing something wrong when this starts to happen, and they start to run out of resource cubes, and either reread the rules, or check the FAQ or post on this forum. This usually takes 1 or 2 games... really not sure how OP played 20 games without noticing something was wrong?
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The Shader
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You get up to two actions each turn, then it is the next player's turn.

If you cannot or choose not to take any actions you must pass.

Once all players have passed it is the next generation.

turn =/= generation
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AnythingForMarcello
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CarcuS wrote:
This usually takes 1 or 2 games... really not sure how OP played 20 games without noticing something was wrong?


I thought I was having deja vu but saw basically the same exchange earlier on Reddit
https://www.reddit.com/r/boardgames/comments/7t59yg/whats_th...
He just really wants to believe the game is poorly designed.
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Des Lee
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Upon checking my copy of the rulebook, perhaps OP has an older version.

It says (emphasis mine):
Quote:
You can choose to take 1 or 2 actions on your turn. If you take no action at all (pass) you are out of this round and may not take any more actions this generation, but as long as you take actions, you will get more turns. When everyone has passed, the action phase ends.
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Matthew Burgess
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losfp wrote:
Upon checking my copy of the rulebook, perhaps OP has an older version.

It says (emphasis mine):
Quote:
You can choose to take 1 or 2 actions on your turn. If you take no action at all (pass) you are out of this round and may not take any more actions this generation, but as long as you take actions, you will get more turns. When everyone has passed, the action phase ends.
That sentence works just fine. A turn is up to two actions. As long as you take at least one action (I.e. Don't pass) you will get more turns in the same round.

Confusion seems to lie in the clarity of actions > turns > rounds / generations.

Edit: upon rereading your post, it occurs to me that maybe you were using your quote to emphasise how the rulebook is actually clear / correct. If so, good work.
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J J
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If you only had 2 actions per generation, the solo variant would be impossible, as you would have 2 x 14 = 28 actions to increase the global parameters by 42 steps. That's 1.5 steps per action.
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Des Lee
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mattpburgess wrote:
losfp wrote:
Upon checking my copy of the rulebook, perhaps OP has an older version.

It says (emphasis mine):
Quote:
You can choose to take 1 or 2 actions on your turn. If you take no action at all (pass) you are out of this round and may not take any more actions this generation, but as long as you take actions, you will get more turns. When everyone has passed, the action phase ends.
That sentence works just fine. A turn is up to two actions. As long as you take at least one action (I.e. Don't pass) you will get more turns in the same round.

Confusion seems to lie in the clarity of actions > turns > rounds / generations.

Edit: upon rereading your post, it occurs to me that maybe you were using your quote to emphasise how the rulebook is actually clear / correct. If so, good work.


Moreso that the OP's rulebook quote actually omits the bolded text. With the bolded text, it actually makes perfect sense
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AJ Cooper
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CarcuS wrote:
ZdadrDeM wrote:
By taking only 2 actions per generation your income would be nearly unlimited and you could play any card you want.

Most people come to the realization they are doing something wrong when this starts to happen, and they start to run out of resource cubes, and either reread the rules, or check the FAQ or post on this forum. This usually takes 1 or 2 games... really not sure how OP played 20 games without noticing something was wrong?

True. While a game being widely popular does not mean any particular person will like it, it is logical to assume that it will not have gross, obvious mechanical flaws. The willingness to believe so over so many plays is ... odd.
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Andreas Krüger
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Maybe they have added this one sentence in later editions to clarify this rule.

Benjamin, here is the link to the official errata you asked for (on reddit). The very first paragraph clarifies your issue.
https://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/1705209/official-faq-ru... (Peter already posted the link above).



Jacob, the OP of the FAQ, is the designer.

You will notice that the game plays much better this way, and you can actually win the solo variant.
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Marcus S
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Thamos von Nostria wrote:
Maybe they have added this one sentence in later editions to clarify this rule.

True, this was not in the first printing of the game (just the bolded part from above). The problem is people come into it with assumptions about how they think things should work. If you actually read the rule book, including the example (which is very clear), then you should never play this part wrong. I understand how once in a while people will miss this, but the number of threads and questions on this just goes to show how many people come in with assumptions or just glaze over the rulebook.
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David Goldfarb
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I love the tags on this thread.
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Des Lee
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Interestingly enough the PDF on the publisher's website does NOT have the additional line. My physical rulebook does (link to photo below).

https://imgur.com/QRUtDdf
 
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Andreas Krüger
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David Goldfarb wrote:
I love the tags on this thread.


I don't. Sure, it's tempting, but overall I like BGG better when we are, you know, nice.
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Danny Perello
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Thamos von Nostria wrote:
David Goldfarb wrote:
I love the tags on this thread.


I don't. Sure, it's tempting, but overall I like BGG better when we are, you know, nice.

I do think it is important, both here and everywhere else, to not lose our sense of humour.
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Rich Charters
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kodemage wrote:
So which is it, do players get 2 actions per turn or do they get unlimited actions each turn? Can you show me where to find the updated rules? This is what comes up when I do a google search and it clearly says 2 actions per turn and that's it.
The answer is in the rule that you quoted above.

It's very important to understand the difference between a 'turn' and a 'generation' in this game.

You can only take 1 or 2 actions per turn.....that is a true statement. But you can take unlimited turns in each generation. A new generation (NOT a new turn) is when you get you income and draw 4 cards, etc...

So how the game works is that you can take as many turns as you want until your $ runs out, then you pass so that you can get your income for the next generation (not the next turn)

Playing solo, the difference between a 'turn' and a 'generation' gets a little confusing since you don't have to wait for anyone else to take a turn before you can take your next turn. When playing solo you are actually playing a number of back-to-back turns in each generation, which can seem like an infinite number of actions in one turn.
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Dan The Man
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richcharters wrote:
kodemage wrote:
So which is it, do players get 2 actions per turn or do they get unlimited actions each turn? Can you show me where to find the updated rules? This is what comes up when I do a google search and it clearly says 2 actions per turn and that's it.
The answer is in the rule that you quoted above.

It's very important to understand the difference between a 'turn' and a 'generation' in this game.

You can only take 1 or 2 actions per turn.....that is a true statement. But you can take unlimited turns in each generation. A new generation (NOT a new turn) is when you get you income and draw 4 cards, etc...

So how the game works is that you can take as many turns as you want until your $ runs out, then you pass so that you can get your income for the next generation (not the next turn)

Playing solo, the difference between a 'turn' and a 'generation' gets a little confusing since you don't have to wait for anyone else to take a turn before you can take your next turn. When playing solo you are actually playing a number of back-to-back turns in each generation, which can seem like an infinite number of actions in one turn.


Again, I say, the problem is using the term "Turn" for what is merely a "Round." Turn conjures up ideas based on people's 1-50 years of game-playing, and should not have been repurposed in this way - likely the result of a misunderstanding of subtleties in English usage during translation.

In Mark Twain's words: "The author shall use the right word, not its second cousin."
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Örjan Almén
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DnaDan56 wrote:
richcharters wrote:
kodemage wrote:
So which is it, do players get 2 actions per turn or do they get unlimited actions each turn? Can you show me where to find the updated rules? This is what comes up when I do a google search and it clearly says 2 actions per turn and that's it.
The answer is in the rule that you quoted above.

It's very important to understand the difference between a 'turn' and a 'generation' in this game.

You can only take 1 or 2 actions per turn.....that is a true statement. But you can take unlimited turns in each generation. A new generation (NOT a new turn) is when you get you income and draw 4 cards, etc...

So how the game works is that you can take as many turns as you want until your $ runs out, then you pass so that you can get your income for the next generation (not the next turn)

Playing solo, the difference between a 'turn' and a 'generation' gets a little confusing since you don't have to wait for anyone else to take a turn before you can take your next turn. When playing solo you are actually playing a number of back-to-back turns in each generation, which can seem like an infinite number of actions in one turn.


Again, I say, the problem is using the term "Turn" for what is merely a "Round." Turn conjures up ideas based on people's 1-50 years of game-playing, and should not have been repurposed in this way - likely the result of a misunderstanding of subtleties in English usage during translation.

In Mark Twain's words: "The author shall use the right word, not its second cousin."


So you say that a turn consists of several rounds? What I learnt (as speaking English as second language) is that a player makes his/her turn and then let next player do their turn... Am I wrong here?
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Sam Carroll
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DnaDan56 wrote:
Again, I say, the problem is using the term "Turn" for what is merely a "Round." Turn conjures up ideas based on people's 1-50 years of game-playing, and should not have been repurposed in this way - likely the result of a misunderstanding of subtleties in English usage during translation.

In Mark Twain's words: "The author shall use the right word, not its second cousin."


In my experience, "round" is usually the larger of the two concepts. In many games, each player takes a "turn"; when all players have had their turns, you have completed one "round."
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Martin H.
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What is so dificult in understanding action/turn/generation...
A player has 1 or 2 actions per turn... if he passes in his first action on his turn he is out of the generation. A Generation is an undeterminate number (not infinite as you cannot have infinte ressources or cards.. there is no perpetuum mobile here) of turns for each player until all players have passed. Then the Generation is over and you start with production and advance the generation marker..In this game there are no "rounds"
 
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