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Subject: Librarian Point Cost? rss

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Brent Lloyd
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In the Mission Files for the Space Wolves, Ultramarines and Dark Angels there are rules in the Custom Missions section that gives Point costs for various Space Marines. The Terminator with Lightening Claws is 2 points, Sergeant with Power Sword & Bolter is 5 points, etc.

It’s super easy to use the same points for the Blood Angels in the base game - except for the Librarian. Has anybody seen a points cost for the Librarian anywhere? Anybody hazard a guess how much they think they should be worth?

I was also wondering - don’t the other factions have their own Librarians? I am not a 40k dude, and none of the Mission Files uses Librarians. I am unfamiliar with the canon.

Peace

 
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Lieven Stassen
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There is indeed no reference to the Librarian in 3rd or 4th Edition with regards to mission points. However, there is in both the 1st Edition expansion Deathwing and Genestealer.

The Deathwing expansion introduced quick psychic powers system which was used again in the 3rd and 4th Edition. In this system the following force list points are used:
• 4 points at 1st level of psychic mastery
• +3 points per level up to a maximum of 4th level

The Genestealer expansion uses the psychic attack card system. In this system the following force list points are used:
• 14 points at 1st level of psychic mastery
• +5 points per level up to a maximum of 4th level

The 4 levels of mastery for a librarian are:
Mastery Title Psi Points
• 1st level Lexicanian 10 pt.
• 2nd level Codicier 20 pt.
• 3rd level Epistolary 30 pt.
• 4th level Chief 40 pt.

Hope this helps.
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Brent Lloyd
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So going by the Deathwing expansion idea:

Base Librarian as per Rule Book for 4th Edition:

Force Axe & Bolter: 5 points
3 psychic levels: 10 points

15 points total? Is the Librarian worth 3 Sergeants with Swords and Bolters? or One Sergeant (as above), One Flamer dude and an Autocannon dude?

Peace
 
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MintyTheCat Cat
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Hi,
it gets kind of interesting working out point values and then your budget for a mission.

A Sargeant with the Sword and Boltgun/pistol is worth 2 points, Heavy-Weapons Terminator for Heavy-Flamer and Auto-Cannon is 5 points.

I forget how much a Chaplain in Terminator is worth but it's kind of 'non- standard SH'
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Brent Lloyd
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I assume you are speaking of first or second edition?

In third/fourth edition Space Hulk - there is a Librarian in the base game.

In the Space Hulk Mission Files it lists (in the Custom Mission section) that a sergeant with a sword & bolter is 5 points, a basic marine with a bolter and fist is 2 points and the heavy flamer dude is 6 Points.

Working back from the Mission Files to the base game - you can get point values for all the figures except the Librarian, which none of the Mission Files use for the Space Wolves, Ultramarines or Dark Angels.

If I want to build a custom mission using the Librarian - there is no points for him that I have been able to find in Games Workshop printed material. I was hoping someone around here knew something that I had missed, or was able to give a decent estimate that felt right.

Peace
 
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MintyTheCat Cat
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Thunder wrote:
I assume you are speaking of first or second edition?

In third/fourth edition Space Hulk - there is a Librarian in the base game.

In the Space Hulk Mission Files it lists (in the Custom Mission section) that a sergeant with a sword & bolter is 5 points, a basic marine with a bolter and fist is 2 points and the heavy flamer dude is 6 Points.

Working back from the Mission Files to the base game - you can get point values for all the figures except the Librarian, which none of the Mission Files use for the Space Wolves, Ultramarines or Dark Angels.

If I want to build a custom mission using the Librarian - there is no points for him that I have been able to find in Games Workshop printed material. I was hoping someone around here knew something that I had missed, or was able to give a decent estimate that felt right.

Peace


We use 1ED Rules with some taken from 3ED.
3ED and 4ED are essentially a mix of the 1ED Missions and Deathwing and hence why the Librarian was included - and he's a heavy member indeed

Ok, in that case they've kind of multiplied the point cost to give themselves more scope for values: 2P Sargeant -> 5, Terminator with Heavy-Bolter & Powerfist 1P -> 2.

So under these additional mission files a team of 5 Terminators would be: 5+3*2+6 = 17

What a strange number.

Under 1ED rules it would be Sargeant + 3*Terminators + Heavy Weapons Terminator = 2+3*1+5 = 10

That's substantially easier to deal with I would say but I do not possess the wisdom of Games-Workshop so who can really say?

I would find out what the point value for a Librarian was for 1ED and then use that as a base to compare and match up for these mission files.

If you have a look at the Deathwing and Genestealer expansions' books or check the Space-Hulk there is a section of Force Lists and on the Librarians. For 1ED with 1P for Terminator, 2P for Sargeant, 5P for heavy weapons, 5P for Captain you have between 4 and 14 and I think that is based on the mastery level of the Librarian.

If we do some calculations:

Sargeant : 2 : 5
Terminator : 1 : 2
Heavy : 5 : 6

Then I'd give this a go:

L=2S
L=4T
L=H-1

So if we apply the point values for the mission files:

L_mf = 2S = 10
L_mf = 4T = 8
L_mf = H-1 = 6-1 = 5

Librarian (std) : 4 : {10,8,5}

How would those test point values for the cost of a Librarian work in those missions now?

I have no idea why they changed them - perhaps the youngsters working on the mission files lack a proper SH 1ED education

Let us know how you get on with it, Thunder - cheers.
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David Martin

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Hi.

I use the following- it has balanced extremely well in my experience:

Space Marine Model (Terminator) Typical Squad 5 models

Points Value

Space Marine Terminator with Storm Bolter & Power Fist 2
Space Marine Terminator with Lightning Claws 2
Space Marine Terminator with Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield 2
Space Marine Terminator with Storm Bolter & Chain Fist 3
Sergeant with Storm Bolter & Power Sword 5
Sergeant with Lightning Claws 5
Sergeant with Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield 5
Space Marine Terminator with Heavy Flamer & Power Fist 6
Space Marine Terminator with Assault Cannon & Power Fist 6
Space Marine Terminator with Cyclone Missile Launcher & Power Fist 6
Space Marine Terminator with Plasma Cannon 6
Additional Chain Fist +1
Space Marine Terminator Chaplain with Crozius Arcanum & Storm Bolter 6
Space Marine Terminator Captain with Storm Bolter, Grenade Launcher & Power Sword 10
Space Marine Terminator Librarian with Force Axe and Storm Bolter 20


Space Marine Model (Power Armour) Typical Squad 10 models

Points Value
Space Marine with Bolter 1
Space Marine with Flamer 3
Space Marine with Heavy Bolter 3
Space Marine with Missile Launcher 6
Space Marine with Lascannon/ Heavy Plasma Gun 6
Sergeant with Bolter Gun and Chain Sword (Plasma Gun +1) 4
Space Marine Captain with Plasma Gun, Power Sword and 3 Plasma Grenades 8
Space Marine Librarian with Force Sword/Axe and Bolter 15


Imperial Guardsman Model

Points Value
Guardsman armed with Lasgun 1
Guardsman with Flamer 3
Guardsman with Heavy Bolter 3
Guardmsan with Missile Launcher 6
Guardsman with Plasma Gun 3
Guardsman with Missile Launcher 3
Guardsman with Lascannon 6
Guardsman with Autocannon 6
Sergeant Laspistol and Chainsword 4
Commissar with Laspistol or Plasma Pistol and Power Sword 8
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Brent Lloyd
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Thanks for that, 20 points for the Librarian feels about right.

I assume you are using the stats from "The Bible" for all your weapons and such.

Peace

DavidJMartin wrote:
Hi.

I use the following- it has balanced extremely well in my experience:

Space Marine Model (Terminator) Typical Squad 5 models

Points Value

Space Marine Terminator with Storm Bolter & Power Fist 2
Space Marine Terminator with Lightning Claws 2
Space Marine Terminator with Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield 2
Space Marine Terminator with Storm Bolter & Chain Fist 3
Sergeant with Storm Bolter & Power Sword 5
Sergeant with Lightning Claws 5
Sergeant with Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield 5
Space Marine Terminator with Heavy Flamer & Power Fist 6
Space Marine Terminator with Assault Cannon & Power Fist 6
Space Marine Terminator with Cyclone Missile Launcher & Power Fist 6
Space Marine Terminator with Plasma Cannon 6
Additional Chain Fist +1
Space Marine Terminator Chaplain with Crozius Arcanum & Storm Bolter 6
Space Marine Terminator Captain with Storm Bolter, Grenade Launcher & Power Sword 10
Space Marine Terminator Librarian with Force Axe and Storm Bolter 20


Space Marine Model (Power Armour) Typical Squad 10 models

Points Value
Space Marine with Bolter 1
Space Marine with Flamer 3
Space Marine with Heavy Bolter 3
Space Marine with Missile Launcher 6
Space Marine with Lascannon/ Heavy Plasma Gun 6
Sergeant with Bolter Gun and Chain Sword (Plasma Gun +1) 4
Space Marine Captain with Plasma Gun, Power Sword and 3 Plasma Grenades 8
Space Marine Librarian with Force Sword/Axe and Bolter 15


Imperial Guardsman Model

Points Value
Guardsman armed with Lasgun 1
Guardsman with Flamer 3
Guardsman with Heavy Bolter 3
Guardmsan with Missile Launcher 6
Guardsman with Plasma Gun 3
Guardsman with Missile Launcher 3
Guardsman with Lascannon 6
Guardsman with Autocannon 6
Sergeant Laspistol and Chainsword 4
Commissar with Laspistol or Plasma Pistol and Power Sword 8
 
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