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Subject: Yang Xiu rss

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Charles Tabony
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If you win, say, the "develop marketplace or collect tax" action with Yang Xiu and another Wei general, I'm guessing you're not allowed to take the "develop marketplace or collect tax" with the other general while also taking the "develop farm" action with Yang Xiu. Just making sure.
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Christophe Jannin
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The extra general comes back in your pool after the end of the combat phase, leaving just one general in the action space.
Basically you just do the action once, regardless of how many general you used to win the combat.
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Jean-Yves Moyen
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[edit: see Yeoster's answer…]
I can't find anything conclusive in the rules or Compendium, but I've always play indeed as "choose which general does the action (and trigger his bonus)".
Typically, Guo Jia + Sima Yi do not allow (imho) to both hire instructor at no cost and draw a card from each deck.
But I'm not totally sure about that (the Compendium says that benefits do add up (Overaching Principle 1) but phrases "general" (singular) and "SEs" (plural)… And only gives an example of general+SE, not of 2 generals…
The clarification for Zhang Fei + Guan Yu, also seems to mean that you could possibly get benefits of two generals in the same space (since it explicitly states a case where you use one general's power and cannot use the other's).


In the case of "action swapping" generals (Zhang Fei works as well), there is however no doubt. If you use the power to do another action instead, then you don't do the initial action. And don't get any eventual power for doing so. The word "instead" in the phrasing of the power is here to tell you that you're not doing the original action. It is clear here that you do each won action once, not once per general (rule, p11: "Players take the actions (…) they won", only mention the actions, not the number of generals on it, so you do one action and use a power to do another one instead).


The extra general(s) do not come back during the "Remove tokens" step of the Resolution phase (rules, p10). Doing so would require memory for Pang De or Li Dian's powers (and Yue Jin) and this is a game which does not require any memory.
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Keng Leong Yeo
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Logitude wrote:
If you win, say, the "develop marketplace or collect tax" action with Yang Xiu and another Wei general, I'm guessing you're not allowed to take the "develop marketplace or collect tax" with the other general while also taking the "develop farm" action with Yang Xiu. Just making sure.

Your understanding is correct. If you win an action space with multiple generals, then you take only one action. In your example above regarding Yang Xiu, the Wei player may only either take the Develop Marketplace or Collect Tax action or take the Develop Farm or Harvest action, but not both.

Jym77 wrote:
I can't find anything conclusive in the rules or Compendium, but I've always play indeed as "choose which general does the action (and trigger his bonus)".
Typically, Guo Jia + Sima Yi do not allow (imho) to both hire instructor at no cost and draw a card from each deck.
But I'm not totally sure about that (the Compendium says that benefits do add up (Overaching Principle 1) but phrases "general" (singular) and "SEs" (plural)… And only gives an example of general+SE, not of 2 generals…
The clarification for Zhang Fei + Guan Yu, also seems to mean that you could possibly get benefits of two generals in the same space (since it explicitly states a case where you use one general's power and cannot use the other's).

In the case of "action swapping" generals (Zhang Fei works as well), there is however no doubt. If you use the power to do another action instead, then you don't do the initial action. And don't get any eventual power for doing so. The word "instead" in the phrasing of the power is here to tell you that you're not doing the original action. It is clear here that you do each won action once, not once per general (rule, p11: "Players take the actions (…) they won", only mention the actions, not the number of generals on it, so you do one action and use a power to do another one instead).

I will explain by way of example with two Shu generals, Guan Yu and Zhang Fei.

Guan Yu
Reputation – When Guan Yu takes the "recruit armies action", he receives 3 untrained armies instead.

Zhang Fei
Defiance – When Zhang Fei takes the "recruit armies action", he may "train armies" instead. When he takes the "train armies action", he may "recruit armies" instead.

Example 1: Guan Yu and Zhang Fei wins the Recruit Armies action space and Shu activates Zhang Fei's skill to take the train armies action. Guan Yu's skill may not be activated, as it does not pertain to the train armies action.

Example 2: Guan Yu and Zhang Fei wins the Train Armies action space and Shu activates Zhang Fei's skill to take the recruit armies action. Guan Yu's skill may be activated, as it does pertain to the recruit armies action. As such, Shu collects 3 untrained armies.

In the discussion above about Sima Yi and Guo Jia, since both their skills pertains to the hire instructor and/or import technology action, both of their skills may be activated, i.e. Guo Jia hires instructor at no cost and Sima Yi allows the drawing of 2 state enhancement cards.

Jym77 wrote:
The extra general(s) do not come back during the "Remove tokens" step of the Resolution phase (rules, p10). Doing so would require memory for Pang De or Li Dian's powers (and Yue Jin) and this is a game which does not require any memory.

This is correct. The relevant rules for this is on the left side of page 10 of the rule book:

Players with winning bids on any action spaces leave their corresponding winning bid general tokens with the army units, bid tokens, Han emperor token and/or popular support tokens, if applicable, on the action spaces for now.
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Jean-Yves Moyen
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Yeoster wrote:

I will explain by way of example with two Shu generals, Guan Yu and Zhang Fei.

Guan Yu
Reputation – When Guan Yu takes the "recruit armies action", he receives 3 untrained armies instead.

Zhang Fei
Defiance – When Zhang Fei takes the "recruit armies action", he may "train armies" instead. When he takes the "train armies action", he may "recruit armies" instead.

Example 2: Guan Yu and Zhang Fei wins the Train Armies action space and Shu activates Zhang Fei's skill to take the recruit armies action. Guan Yu's skill may be activated, as it does pertain to the recruit armies action. As such, Shu collects 3 untrained armies.

Ouch! This is in direct contradiction of the clarification in the Compendium (under Guan Yu) which itself is a consequence of Overarching principle 2 "you only get benefit if you do the action via the correct space"… : puzzled:

Quote:
In the discussion above about Sima Yi and Guo Jia, since both their skills pertains to the hire instructor and/or import technology action, both of their skills may be activated, i.e. Guo Jia hires instructor at no cost and Sima Yi allows the drawing of 2 state enhancement cards.

My bad soblue
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Keng Leong Yeo
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Jym77 wrote:
Yeoster wrote:

I will explain by way of example with two Shu generals, Guan Yu and Zhang Fei.

Guan Yu
Reputation – When Guan Yu takes the "recruit armies action", he receives 3 untrained armies instead.

Zhang Fei
Defiance – When Zhang Fei takes the "recruit armies action", he may "train armies" instead. When he takes the "train armies action", he may "recruit armies" instead.

Example 2: Guan Yu and Zhang Fei wins the Train Armies action space and Shu activates Zhang Fei's skill to take the recruit armies action. Guan Yu's skill may be activated, as it does pertain to the recruit armies action. As such, Shu collects 3 untrained armies.

Ouch! This is in direct contradiction of the clarification in the Compendium (under Guan Yu) which itself is a consequence of Overarching principle 2 "you only get benefit if you do the action via the correct space"… : puzzled:

Apologies! I double-checked the compendium on the above and noted I was incorrect in my initial reply.

To recap, here is Overarching Principle 2 from the compendium:

Overarching Principle 2: General skills that refer to an action are only activated when the general takes the action via the corresponding action space.

Correcting what I wrote above for example 2:

Example 2: Guan Yu and Zhang Fei wins the Train Armies action space and Shu activates Zhang Fei's skill to take the recruit armies action. Guan Yu's skill may not be activated, as he did not take the "recruit armies" action via the "recruit armies" action space.

Apologies for my forgetfulness. blush
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Charles Tabony
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Yeoster wrote:
Logitude wrote:
If you win, say, the "develop marketplace or collect tax" action with Yang Xiu and another Wei general, I'm guessing you're not allowed to take the "develop marketplace or collect tax" with the other general while also taking the "develop farm" action with Yang Xiu. Just making sure.

Your understanding is correct. If you win an action space with multiple generals, then you take only one action. In your example above regarding Yang Xiu, the Wei player may only either take the Develop Marketplace or Collect Tax action or take the Develop Farm or Harvest action, but not both.

Well, you wouldn’t be able to harvest, since Yang Xiu only lets you develop. That is unless you also win the “develop farm or harvest” action with another general. In that case, presumably you could develop your farms twice or develop a farm and harvest.

Thank you for all of your prompt replies!
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Jean-Yves Moyen
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Yes, of course, if Yang Xiu wins one "develop" space and another of your generals win the other, then you can develop the same thing twice (or develop+harvest/collect). That can be pretty powerful in combo with Cao Hong, typically.
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