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Subject: "Move any ally tokens" rss

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Guillaume Rivest
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Is it mandatory to move ALL ally tokens? Or could you move only one? I'm not sure how to interpret the part of the rules where it says that the effects of ally cards are mandatory.

Thanks!
 
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David Williams
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Iguloy wrote:
Is it mandatory to move ALL ally tokens? Or could you move only one? I'm not sure how to interpret the part of the rules where it says that the effects of ally cards are mandatory.

Thanks!


We wondered the same thing, and took the rule book to be saying you must move them even if you don't really want to. I also figured it would include the word 'may' somewhere if it were optional.

Thematically we figured this represents that they are not under direct or perfect control of the Frodo player - they are kinda doing their own thing, trying to help but possibly with imperfect information about where the fellowship is at that moment.

For example, maybe they know the route Frodo planned to take, but don't know for sure that he's stayed on track.

The thought did just occur to me that the current location is considered connected - but the rule for moving an ally token states "any other connected location" so 'moving' to their current location doesn't seem to be an option either.
 
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Kevin Chapman
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When a card says "move any Ally tokens in play", you can move all, some, or none of them.
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Shoosh shoo
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I would agree that you shouldnt be forced to move allys. These types of cards should provide a benefit for Frodo. If you were forced to move them that may hinder Frodo which defeats the purpose. Putting the word "may" on the card would have helped though lol.
 
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David Williams
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Krieghund wrote:
When a card says "move any Ally tokens in play", you can move all, some, or none of them.


Thanks for clarifying.

If there's opportunity to make this clearer in a reprint or FAQ, it seems a good candidate as I don't think this conclusion can be justified from the rules book.
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Kolby Reddish
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Possibly good to clarify but hardly needed, in my opinion. The language speaks for itself, after all, that’s what “any” means.
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Kevin Young
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reddish22 wrote:
Possibly good to clarify but hardly needed, in my opinion. The language speaks for itself, after all, that’s what “any” means.


In Aeon's End, "any" means 1 (and exactly 1), per the designer Kevin Riley.

"Any" is about as unclear as you can get.

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1750651/any-question
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1756923/solved-clear-use-wo...
 
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David Williams
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reddish22 wrote:
Possibly good to clarify but hardly needed, in my opinion. The language speaks for itself, after all, that’s what “any” means.


Any does imply a subset, however the category could be parsed as Ally Tokens, and the subset would then be those in play.

But (as Kevin clarifies below) the intended category is 'Ally tokens in play'

Quote:
In Aeon's End, "any" means 1 (and exactly 1), per the designer Kevin Riley.


To be fair, in the examples you linked the any precedes a singular (player) not plural as it does in this case. So the usage is subtly different - In the examples you link I'd naturally assume it did mean 1 player in the case of 'any player gains 1 life'.

I do think it's grammatically ambiguous in either case though, because the meaning of 'any' relies on context. 'Any or all' makes the intent and meaning clear. 'May move any allies' also clarifies beyond reasonable doubt.

In this case, whether or not we can nitpick the subtleties of English grammar to deduce a 'correct' interpretation, the fact is multiple people were unsure and in our case got it wrong (partially because I prefer to judge against myself if we are unsure, rather than stopping play to look it up and/or debate English grammar mid-game).

Also there is the rule that cards must be executed as fully as possible - that could be interpreted to mean that 'any' should also include as many as possible. We weren't just taking the card in isolation.
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Kevin Chapman
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jrigkvn1229 wrote:
In Aeon's End, "any" means 1 (and exactly 1), per the designer Kevin Riley.

Applying the rules of one game to another game is always sheer folly. They are irrelevant to one another (unless both are part of the same series, and even then it's uncertain).
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Kevin Chapman
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Orion3T wrote:
Any does imply a subset, however the category is Ally Tokens, and the subset could mean those in play, not some subset of those which are in play.

No, the category, per the cards, is "Ally tokens in play".
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David Williams
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Krieghund wrote:
Orion3T wrote:
Any does imply a subset, however the category is Ally Tokens, and the subset could mean those in play, not some subset of those which are in play.

No, the category, per the cards, is "Ally tokens in play".


Thanks for clarifying the intended interpretation.

I corrected my post.
 
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