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Vast: The Crystal Caverns» Forums » Variants

Subject: More strategy / possibilities to anticipate? rss

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Yan Bertrand
France
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Hi all,
I'm yet to have my first game with multiple players, even though I've had 2 solo games, so what I write here is probably a bit premature. But I know I like my games a bit less random, and I like it when people don't have to wait for too long for me to play, so here I go.

I've notived that the Cave and the Goblins draw cards/tokens at the start of their turn, which effectively is going to take time to evaluate their options (all the more with new players). In an ideal world, they could do that in advance and plan their turn ahead of time. But there are events thanks to the numerous interactions with other players (which are a strong point of this game, so there's no touching that ), so it's not a perfect thing.

I wonder if it's been explored to let these players draw in advance, as per their ability at the end of their turn, and then discard if circumstances force them to do so? Namely:
- Goblins: Pre-draw your future War cards inadvance of your next turn. If you would be allowed fewer cards because your Rage went down due to other players's actions (not sure that's possible), then choose cards you discard. Otherwise, if you get more rage, draw accordingly when it happens (off your turn). This way you can start to choose which card you'll pick during the Cave / Thief turns, even if the Knight will move.
- Cave: draw your future Omen tokens in advance. You're quite likely to have to discard some, which you'll choose. You might get a few more when tiles are revealed, so get them immediately (off your turn).

The disadvantages of this are:
- These roles get to choose what to discard, which means they get an advantage. Not sure if it's significant enough that it would throw the balance off?
- Decks will be cycled more often. I'd say we don't mind this too much.

Has something like this been tried during play-testing?

Thanks for your answers!
 
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Patrick Leder
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I will admit I regret not putting the Goblin's draws at the end of the turn and if I were to actually do a second edition that is one of the places I would start. Placing the Goblins at the start of the turn still is very interesting. I don't even know if I would worry about Rage changing, it can only go up when its not the Goblin's turn. I think we tried it both ways and getting things at the beginning of the turn kept the Goblin player more involved. Drawing the right secret card would let them score a needed hit just in time and felt more excited. I disclosed some months after publishing the game to my wife I wish I had put it at the end of the the turn and she got mad since she had suggested it earlier in testing. I could write up a version of the Goblins like this and if people are willing to test it (I am much to busy right now) we can consider it for the future.

The future Green players, the Skeletons (who have 0 cards at the moment) and the Kobolds will be based on this idea.

I think your way might introduce some AP for the Cave if they had to throw out Omens. How bad would it be if they just kept all of the Omens despite changes? They aren't going to benefit from discoveries after their turn, but they will immediately benefit from Treasures placed so it might wash out.

I didn't consider it as big of a deal for the Cave drawing at the start since there are so many fewer options.
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Yan Bertrand
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Sounds good - thank you for the quick reply!
I'll probably test it (the way you described it) if my play group "successfully passes the first game". I'll keep this thread posted.
 
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Patrick Leder
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Unfortunately for me testing it, I am rapidly getting Vast: The Mysterious Manor together. As it is I would be happy doubling my playtesting and I don't see that happening.
 
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Kyp Ganner
Belgium
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Actually, the Goblins can lose rage outside of their turn if the knight falls into an ambush.

But that doesn't happen so often as to severely change the balance of the game.

That said, I'm totally OK with the Goblins drawing cards at the beginning of their turn. I've never felt it took them time to decide which card to choose. I mean it's usually not the part of their turn where the other players tend to get bored.

I guess it depends on the player though.
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Anjovi Kulam
Canada
Prince George
British Columbia
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I haven't played the cave yet....but what if?
You had an extra little baggie for when you did need to discard cave tiles before your upcoming turn?

Say, Cave draws this many tiles at end of turn and then if for whatever reason, they lose the ability to have that many cave tiles before their next turn, they could just toss them in this separate bag and randomly omit them?

Might give the cave enough time to form back up plans before their turn..although, i haven't played the cave yet, so perhaps tile distribution from the total omen tiles is varied in such a way that this would have little impact.
 
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