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Subject: Are some of the scenarios too hard? [slight spoiler] rss

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Douglas Northnilly
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I looked through some threads, and found most complaints are about the intro scenarios. This is a bit different for me.
I was playing a solo game with two characters, so for the first two scenarios, when I played at level 2 monsters and traps, I did not find it too hard, and really enjoyed it.
HOWEVER, Scenario #4 is the first scenario that I found too hard. I tried it 4 times to get through barely. The map is just too large for two players when they need to kill enemies in two different rooms and the elemental monsters are just too powerful. Every time I lost due to exhaustion. I beat it just because of super lucky draw at the last attempt.
Then I found Scenario #22, which is just impossible for two players. All demons are killing by one hit. Need to go to different rooms, again. I tried so many times and was not able to beat it, until I tried a 4-character solo game.
Now I am playing Scenario #18. And it is just crazy. Each time I was just not able to beat the second room. I already retried so many times and got my characters up to lev 5 and lev 3 (the monsters are lev 3, based on the solo rule), but I still not able to live through this scenario.
I am just wondering if the solo rule + two-character game too hard, and if they did not test the scenarios on two characters well. soblue
 
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Some scenarios are definitely harder than others. I've noticed that this game seems pretty skill-dependent, based on what's posted on these boards it seems some players are just really good at it and seem to win all the time even on very hard, and others struggle on normal.

That's ok. It's a cooperative game, or even a solo adventure. If you're finding it too hard, just lower the difficulty - the difficulty slider is there for a reason! Use it!

Personally, if I fail a scenario twice in a row, I'm always going to lower the difficulty for the third try. If I fail it once, I've learned something about it so the second time it should be easier. If I've failed it twice, that means it's too hard for me as it is, and I'd rather lower the difficulty than keep trying until I get lucky (unless I really do have good ideas for what to do differently, not just 'try again and don't suck this time')
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Robin Oosterom
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This is not a easy gme but if you play on Level -1 or 0 you can defeat most scenarios with minimum experience.

I am palying with an exoperienced group and started with level 0 but now we are playing on medium so 1 above level. This is doable but you need to know what you are doing instead off just hoping for the best.

Best advice to give you is try to get as less hits from the monsters as you can. Since there aren't real tanks in this game and monsters sometime can do ridiculous dmg by grabbing a x 2 modifier it will cost you alot. Don't stnad in the middle off a group off monsters if you don't know who goes first next round. You just can;t get hit 3 times in 1 round, that will just get you exhuasted
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Silver Samurai
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a37345735 wrote:
I was playing a solo game with two characters, so for the first two scenarios, when I played at level 2 monsters and traps, I did not find it too hard, and really enjoyed it.


Just wondering which character combo you played? I'm doing a solo run too, but hit a wall at the 2nd scenario. I believe I'm somewhat constrained by choice of characters (Brute & Mindthief) and their lack of range, which definitely provides an advantage for Scenario 2.
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Richard Sands
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a37345735 wrote:
Then I found Scenario #22, which is just impossible for two players. All demons are killing by one hit. Need to go to different rooms, again. I tried so many times and was not able to beat it, until I tried a 4-character solo game.


Have you checked any of the threads about common rules mistakes? The fact that you mention being killed in one hit makes me wonder if you might be missing the rule about losing a card from your hand (or two from discard) to ignore damage from a hit.

If you're having difficulty with the size of the map, have you (as my son did once) swapped out too many of your move cards? (My son had only one card with more than move 2, as he had only been looking at how juicy the top ability of each card was, and A. had difficulty reaching the back rooms, and B. couldn't use any of his bottom abilities, because he always needed to use the base 2 moves!)
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Douglas Northnilly
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SilverSam wrote:
a37345735 wrote:
I was playing a solo game with two characters, so for the first two scenarios, when I played at level 2 monsters and traps, I did not find it too hard, and really enjoyed it.


Just wondering which character combo you played? I'm doing a solo run too, but hit a wall at the 2nd scenario. I believe I'm somewhat constrained by choice of characters (Brute & Mindthief) and their lack of range, which definitely provides an advantage for Scenario 2.


I am using Spellweaver and Elementalist, both are ranged fragile mages.

The always problem I have is not getting beaten by enemy damages, but not able to kill all monsters. Like Scenario 18, there are just too many of them, and the total number of hit points, I am guessing, is much larger than the damage I can give through all my cards.
 
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Douglas Northnilly
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ftl_ftw wrote:
Some scenarios are definitely harder than others. I've noticed that this game seems pretty skill-dependent, based on what's posted on these boards it seems some players are just really good at it and seem to win all the time even on very hard, and others struggle on normal.

That's ok. It's a cooperative game, or even a solo adventure. If you're finding it too hard, just lower the difficulty - the difficulty slider is there for a reason! Use it!

Personally, if I fail a scenario twice in a row, I'm always going to lower the difficulty for the third try. If I fail it once, I've learned something about it so the second time it should be easier. If I've failed it twice, that means it's too hard for me as it is, and I'd rather lower the difficulty than keep trying until I get lucky (unless I really do have good ideas for what to do differently, not just 'try again and don't suck this time')


My feeling was like theoretically I was not able to deal so much damage to kill all of them, or not able to go back and forth across the large map, due to the small number of cards (even when I play them very carefully and not using their 'lost' ability). I nearly never discarded cards to avoid damage, but still not able. It looks like it is only possible if each of the attack is a x2 hit. And the enemies never draw their breaking card, like ooze splitting.

And yes, I am starting to lower the difficulty. T_T
 
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Douglas Northnilly
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Robinoost wrote:
This is not a easy gme but if you play on Level -1 or 0 you can defeat most scenarios with minimum experience.

I am palying with an exoperienced group and started with level 0 but now we are playing on medium so 1 above level. This is doable but you need to know what you are doing instead off just hoping for the best.

Best advice to give you is try to get as less hits from the monsters as you can. Since there aren't real tanks in this game and monsters sometime can do ridiculous dmg by grabbing a x 2 modifier it will cost you alot. Don't stnad in the middle off a group off monsters if you don't know who goes first next round. You just can;t get hit 3 times in 1 round, that will just get you exhuasted


For a solo game, the monsters are one level higher. This is sometimes too crazy, especially when I just leveled up one of my characters to lev 3, I had to face all lev 3 monsters suddenly. For a whole scenario, the total number of damage I needed to deal was increased by about 20-30. But what I just got was merely a new replacing card and a perk. cry
 
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a37345735 wrote:

HOWEVER, Scenario #4 is the first scenario that I found too hard. I tried it 4 times to get through barely. The map is just too large for two players when they need to kill enemies in two different rooms and the elemental monsters are just too powerful. Every time I lost due to exhaustion. I beat it just because of super lucky draw at the last attempt.

Then I found Scenario #22, which is just impossible for two players. All demons are killing by one hit. Need to go to different rooms, again. I tried so many times and was not able to beat it, until I tried a 4-character solo game.

Now I am playing Scenario #18. And it is just crazy. Each time I was just not able to beat the second room. I already retried so many times and got my characters up to lev 5 and lev 3 (the monsters are lev 3, based on the solo rule), but I still not able to live through this scenario.
I am just wondering if the solo rule + two-character game too hard, and if they did not test the scenarios on two characters well. soblue


The wife and I are playing the game duo more often than not and usually run difficulty at +1 and +2.

#4 took two approaches and we beat #22 on the 2nd approach without losing a single point of health. (Inox wombo and invisibility abuse are too strong on this map).

In the early game, without gear and deeper tactical knowledge, scenarios are harder to deal with (we had the benefit of having played ten-ish scenarios before beginning the campaign). You keep learning across games, and the game will keep getting easier.

Hang in there, and as a tip: A lot of the more difficult scenarios require you to figure out a specific trick, usually considering positioning, scenario effects or specific abilities. If you keep this in mind when "figuring out" a scenario, you might find some of them to suddenly be surprisingly easy.
 
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Douglas Northnilly
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ciriquen wrote:
a37345735 wrote:
Then I found Scenario #22, which is just impossible for two players. All demons are killing by one hit. Need to go to different rooms, again. I tried so many times and was not able to beat it, until I tried a 4-character solo game.


Have you checked any of the threads about common rules mistakes? The fact that you mention being killed in one hit makes me wonder if you might be missing the rule about losing a card from your hand (or two from discard) to ignore damage from a hit.

If you're having difficulty with the size of the map, have you (as my son did once) swapped out too many of your move cards? (My son had only one card with more than move 2, as he had only been looking at how juicy the top ability of each card was, and A. had difficulty reaching the back rooms, and B. couldn't use any of his bottom abilities, because he always needed to use the base 2 moves!)


The problem is if you avoided damage through losing cards, then you would have even less cards for moving. cry
For example, for Scenario 22, after destroy one altar, I need to move about 12 steps to get to another altar, which at least took me 3 or 4 rounds, even if I had all moving cards in hand and not disturbed by enemies. And approximately I think for a 10-card character, even if you did not lose card at first several rounds, you still can only play for about 12 rounds, which is just usually too few for a scenario, like 18 or 22. Maybe the problem is that I need to pick proper characters for a specific scenario if I have lost it many times.
 
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tibbles von tibbleton
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18 is pretty crazy. Ton of mobs and the oozes in the back is harsh. That was my first loss in like 15 scenarios. There are a handful, mostly the ones with summoning enemies that can range from normal to near impossible just based on enemy card draw. I had one it went from like 10 to 16 monsters first turn of the game and all in my face. Was like, nope, not even gonna bother wasting 30 min to lose this for minor xp and gold. I’m just going to reshuffle and draw a new action.
 
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SilverSam wrote:
a37345735 wrote:
I was playing a solo game with two characters, so for the first two scenarios, when I played at level 2 monsters and traps, I did not find it too hard, and really enjoyed it.


Just wondering which character combo you played? I'm doing a solo run too, but hit a wall at the 2nd scenario. I believe I'm somewhat constrained by choice of characters (Brute & Mindthief) and their lack of range, which definitely provides an advantage for Scenario 2.

At that time I used mindthief and tinkerer. As I remembered I just killed the boss in a few turns before he opened too many gates. I just thrown all 'lost' abilities of cards on him to deal as much damage as I could.
 
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Douglas Northnilly
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DeS_Tructive wrote:
a37345735 wrote:

HOWEVER, Scenario #4 is the first scenario that I found too hard. I tried it 4 times to get through barely. The map is just too large for two players when they need to kill enemies in two different rooms and the elemental monsters are just too powerful. Every time I lost due to exhaustion. I beat it just because of super lucky draw at the last attempt.

Then I found Scenario #22, which is just impossible for two players. All demons are killing by one hit. Need to go to different rooms, again. I tried so many times and was not able to beat it, until I tried a 4-character solo game.

Now I am playing Scenario #18. And it is just crazy. Each time I was just not able to beat the second room. I already retried so many times and got my characters up to lev 5 and lev 3 (the monsters are lev 3, based on the solo rule), but I still not able to live through this scenario.
I am just wondering if the solo rule + two-character game too hard, and if they did not test the scenarios on two characters well. soblue


The wife and I are playing the game duo more often than not and usually run difficulty at +1 and +2.

#4 took two approaches and we beat #22 on the 2nd approach without losing a single point of health. (Inox wombo and invisibility abuse are too strong on this map).

In the early game, without gear and deeper tactical knowledge, scenarios are harder to deal with (we had the benefit of having played ten-ish scenarios before beginning the campaign). You keep learning across games, and the game will keep getting easier.

Hang in there, and as a tip: A lot of the more difficult scenarios require you to figure out a specific trick, usually considering positioning, scenario effects or specific abilities. If you keep this in mind when "figuring out" a scenario, you might find some of them to suddenly be surprisingly easy.


Thanks for your advice
But I think #22 is the cultists and demons, right? It was too terrible when the cultists summoned bones every turn. I just always got bad luck draw.cry
 
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Douglas Northnilly
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tibbles wrote:
18 is pretty crazy. Ton of mobs and the oozes in the back is harsh. That was my first loss in like 15 scenarios. There are a handful, mostly the ones with summoning enemies that can range from normal to near impossible just based on enemy card draw. I had one it went from like 10 to 16 monsters first turn of the game and all in my face. Was like, nope, not even gonna bother wasting 30 min to lose this for minor xp and gold. I’m just going to reshuffle and draw a new action.


can't agree more...
every time i did run into the scene when the ooze still want to split while no more figures are available... crazy
 
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Mathue Faulkner
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I think most agree that the solo bump of +1 difficulty is not really needed. I don't play solo, but I've seen that comment for than a few times.

Mild possible spoilers on scenarios mentioned in OP.
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Scenario #4 was actually nerfed for the 2nd printing. It was pretty rough for us, and it was a matter of planning the timing in order to beat it.

We beat #22 first attempt with 2p, but it's definitely a tougher one.

We also beat #18 on our first attempt with 4p, but any scenario with Oozes involve some (bad) luck.


72 and 81 are notoriously difficult as well...
 
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a37345735 wrote:

Thanks for your advice
But I think #22 is the cultists and demons, right? It was too terrible when the cultists summoned bones every turn. I just always got bad luck draw.cry



It seems to me that most monsters have a specific way of defusing them, especially in low levels. You just have to figure it out.

Cultist strategies:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
You can take the bite out of cultists by holding stuns until they threaten to summon.

They're also pretty squishy and don't hit very hard. Most classes should be able to burst a cultist down in two turns without taking much damage.
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Most scenarios are really well balanced. Some are harder than others based on party composition. One is harder because it's random in a way the rest of Gloomhaven isn't.

Because most scenarios are so well balanced, the ones that aren't really stand out.

The starting scenarios often seem harder than they are because characters without gear are significantly weaker than those same characters 100g later.
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mournful wrote:
Most scenarios are really well balanced. Some are harder than others based on party composition. One is harder because it's random in a way the rest of Gloomhaven isn't.

Because most scenarios are so well balanced, the ones that aren't really stand out.

The starting scenarios often seem harder than they are because characters without gear are significantly weaker than those same characters 100g later.

My party combination looks not very good then. I don't have one who walked very fast, nor one who can lasts longer. The spellweaver and the elementalist both deal more damage but have less hp and cards in hand. Once I took some damage by losing cards, I was not able to deal enough damage to kill all enemies before I exhausted.
 
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Just played the first scenario with a Mindthief and Tinkerer at level 1, just to see how it would go.

Really well.

MT used shield to weather the melee alpha strike, then used his move/heal and his heal aura(what is it called?) to recover.

We used poison and stuns, MT long rested after killing the last monster, Tinkerer opened the door to the next room. Took some hits, long rested while the MT moved up and summoned his rat.

Rat took a bunch of damage throughout, but the Tinkerer healed it.

Used Move 2, Heal 2 to spring the trap in front of the last door, let the rat get in front while the Tinkerer opened the door, then slowly advanced using poison and stuns.

I think most duos are viable given how versatile many of the characters are.
 
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a37345735 wrote:
mournful wrote:
Most scenarios are really well balanced. Some are harder than others based on party composition. One is harder because it's random in a way the rest of Gloomhaven isn't.

Because most scenarios are so well balanced, the ones that aren't really stand out.

The starting scenarios often seem harder than they are because characters without gear are significantly weaker than those same characters 100g later.

My party combination looks not very good then. I don't have one who walked very fast, nor one who can lasts longer. The spellweaver and the elementalist both deal more damage but have less hp and cards in hand. Once I took some damage by losing cards, I was not able to deal enough damage to kill all enemies before I exhausted.


It does sound like a really tough combo. What sort of gear do they have?
 
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patrick mullen
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a37345735 wrote:
mournful wrote:
Most scenarios are really well balanced. Some are harder than others based on party composition. One is harder because it's random in a way the rest of Gloomhaven isn't.

Because most scenarios are so well balanced, the ones that aren't really stand out.

The starting scenarios often seem harder than they are because characters without gear are significantly weaker than those same characters 100g later.

My party combination looks not very good then. I don't have one who walked very fast, nor one who can lasts longer. The spellweaver and the elementalist both deal more damage but have less hp and cards in hand. Once I took some damage by losing cards, I was not able to deal enough damage to kill all enemies before I exhausted.


Why not bring another character along to get through the scenario? Someone who can maybe move better or take more damage. The game is very flexible for adding and removing characters at will, and with prosperity you can make a new character if you need to and level them up a bit so they aren't so far behind.
 
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No, you're right. Some missions are just much harder than others.

Unlocked mission 81 quite early, and decided to hit that instead of progressing the main quest line. Wow, what a struggle, with heroes at level 1 and level 2 haha
 
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