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Subject: Personal quest - am I a horrible metagamer? rss

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Shaun Campbell
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So, just in case it is a spoiler:

Spoiler (click to reveal)
My party retired it's first character this weekend. Everyone was excited about opening the first advanced character. Everyone except for me. It turns out that my personal quest also unlocks the same advanced character.

It was difficult to hide my disappointment when it was revealed, and as a group we decided it would be ok if I changed my personal quest. Partly as we have a big group and want everyone to have their own characters. (It's hard to get the same four people in a room for the same time consistently!)

Has anyone else had this problem, and what is the internets opinion?


Poll
Is it ok?
No, you are a horrible heathen metagamer who deserves to die in a pit of night demons and cultists.
Yes, it can take ages to retire a character and you should be able to unlock a new character.
      104 answers
Poll created by Ixtlilton
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Robin Oosterom
Netherlands
De Meern
Utrecht
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I can understand the frustation. Don't think it can do any harm to chance your life goal. Just do what feels right for your group.

Have fun playing
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j ribs
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We always had a rule where 2 people couldn't unlock the same thing.

Opening new classes is a lot of fun and when it's from your quest you feel like it's yours, so removing that by having overlapping quests is no fun.
 
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Jimmer Sivertsen
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Seattle
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When I started a campaign with some friends in July, we decided to keep retirements secrets. One of the four had to take a break for a bit - the one who I think cared the most about it.

Later on, we decided to talk a little more freely (not specifics) about our goals. The next meetup, we decided to talk about the symbols we would unlock.

Two of us had the same one. And that we would both retire about 2 sessions. (The third loves his SpellWeaver so much, he might never retire.) It's...okay. I let the other player take the new character, I picked up the Brute. We did get an extra item design and location out of it - not the WORST thing.

What's interesting now, is the huge changes in how we play the new characters. I'm hopeful that it'll always be different enough. I'm looking forward to opening my own copy, and seeing things again, but from a different combination of characters.

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Maciej Stępiński
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Nothing says you can't abandon the characters right after you create them to make another one. Drawing two personal quests is just faster then giving them all 24 big deck to pick whatever they want, but I don't see why it can't be done.
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thespaceinvader -
United Kingdom
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You still get a reward for unlocking something that's already open, and it's a pretty useful one; those random items in particular will take ages to open up, and some of them are really good.

I wouldn't fret.
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Shaun Campbell
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thespaceinvader wrote:
You still get a reward for unlocking something that's already open, and it's a pretty useful one; those random items in particular will take ages to open up, and some of them are really good.

I wouldn't fret.


We completely missed that part of the rule book! We thought it was just an "oh well, which character that's already been played do you want to use", but the random item design is cool. I'm glad something still gets revealed.
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Nico Nico
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The purpose of a game is to have fun. If you're frustrated about that and everyone in your group is ok with changing your life goal, I don't see why you shouldn't do it

And you didn't really cheat since you made all the work to retire.
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Ashley Kennedy
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Nris wrote:
The purpose of a game is to have fun. If you're frustrated about that and everyone in your group is ok with changing your life goal, I don't see why you shouldn't do it

And you didn't really cheat since you made all the work to retire.


There is a certain enjoyment in following the limitations of the game, but at the same time no one is going to fault you for finding the fun your group wants out of the game. If anything, you will have to judge for yourself whether or not this amendment to the rules bothers you. If not, enjoy it.
 
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Darren Nakamura
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I get the frustration, but I don't know that the solution is really any better. Depends on how close you were to completing your personal quest. If this happened to me and I was only 2-3 more scenarios away from finishing, I'd just finish it out like normal, take the stated rewards (random item design and random side scenario), and continue as normal.

If I were (as in my current situation) no closer to retirement than when I started, I might entertain the idea of switching out personal quests. Then again, I might not. I already want to play one of the other six starting classes, so it's not like I'll be hurting for another choice once I finally do retire.

As others above have said, do what you want. Don't worry too much about what random dudes on the internet think. (And I recognize the irony in me saying this after two paragraphs of my own personal opinion.)
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Mike Oehler
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There's no actual requirement for hiding personal quests the way there is for battle goals, so if you wanted to avoid doubling up, the best time would have been while picking your quests in the first place.

OTOH, you may be unlocking a class from rep, and there are likely unplayed starter characters as well, so there are still new classes for you to play. Opening up random items and missions can also let you find cool stuff, makes some personal quests easier, and can help open up some envelopes.
 
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Matt Rossi
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My only real concern is that if you do this too often you will eventually be left with only personal quests with classes you've already unlocked, which leaves you with the same problem you had before but without any recourse.
 
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Jay Johnson
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WarioMCP wrote:
My only real concern is that if you do this too often you will eventually be left with only personal quests with classes you've already unlocked, which leaves you with the same problem you had before but without any recourse.

you'd have that same problem choosing randomly too, it would just happen earlier in the campaign instead of all at the end.

just means you get to unlock a random item and random side scenario instead of a character class or envelope.
rulebook pg 48 wrote:
Any time players are directed to open
a box or envelope and it has already been opened because of some previous condition, a new random item
design and random side scenario are unlocked instead (see p. 38 for details).
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Andrew DeWitt
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After our group completed their life goals for the first time we all decided that this part of the game was our least favorite.

It reminded me of those mobile games where you had to grind a ton of hours just to get a new unlock and that unlock may not be something you even want in the first place so then you have to grind more hours to finally get the thing you want. I have said before Grinding in board games is just not fun.

So we just unlocked all classes and allow for players to choose any class they want. This has been so much more fun for us because we can play around with all sorts of group compositions.

Gloomhaven is fun for us because of the core features like hand management, adaptation, and communication. You will see that opening boxes is not on that list.

 
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Matt Rossi
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JayJ79 wrote:
WarioMCP wrote:
My only real concern is that if you do this too often you will eventually be left with only personal quests with classes you've already unlocked, which leaves you with the same problem you had before but without any recourse.

you'd have that same problem choosing randomly too, it would just happen earlier in the campaign instead of all at the end.

just means you get to unlock a random item and random side scenario instead of a character class or envelope.
rulebook pg 48 wrote:
Any time players are directed to open
a box or envelope and it has already been opened because of some previous condition, a new random item
design and random side scenario are unlocked instead (see p. 38 for details).


It wouldn't happen earlier in the game, it would be spread throughout the entire life of the campaign. Sometimes your PQ would unlock a class you don't have. Sometimes you'd get a side scenario and an item design. If you selectively choose all of your personal quests so you only unlock new classes for the half of a campaign the remaining portion only has items and side scenarios to unlock. This removes much of the incentive to retire and eliminates one of the defining features of the game: unlocking content as you play. This constant progression requires players to alter existing party dynamics in addition to creating new ones. Even if you don't play the newly unlocked class I think it adds important features to the game.

The intended way isn't the only way to play the game, but If not doing personal quests normally I'd probably just have all of the classes unlocked by default. I personally like the intended system because it staggers new content while I learn my new character's kit and figure out how use them effectively. I also like figuring out how to integrate new characters into an existing party makeup.

It's convenient that the intended method for unlocking content is the way I'm most likely to enjoy it, eh? ^^
 
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Mathue Faulkner
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Just a note that when we finished the campaign, there were quite a few locked side scenarios still left because we didn't overlap at all on retirement. Also, the random items can be awesome....

(Most of our campaign was 2p, so we unlocked less than a 4p campaign would've...)

Also note that those locked side quests prevented us from seeing other areas of the game.
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Todd Robinson
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I'm pretty sure my group is going to house rule that we'd unlock a different character in this case (one that someone else isn't going for, of course). I've only unlocked one character so far, but that character had no thematic connection to the personal quest that was just completed, so I don't think this house rule breaks anything.

Another workaround is that characters that are unlocked at +10 or -10 rep - you could just play those instead. Particularly if you are at, say, +8 rep I'd suggest just popping the seal on the +10 character and not worrying about it.

What I tried to do was to avoid this very problem to begin with. I tried to remove the other quest card with the same symbol each time a quest card was chosen. You can do this pretty easily without spoiling the card for yourself if everyone is on board.
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Joseph Cochran
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I lost out to someone else taking my unlock in a 3p game twice in a row. In the first case we also unlocked Sun class by reputation so I took that one, and in the second case I played Scoundrel next. After that I asked the others to remove the quests that unlocked their symbols from the deck before I drew.

It happening once isn't so bad since there are new classes even amongst the initial six that are cool and different and fun to play.
 
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Pater Absurdus
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tro6inson wrote:


Another workaround is that characters that are unlocked at +10 or -10 rep - you could just play those instead. Particularly if you are at, say, +8 rep I'd suggest just popping the seal on the +10 character and not worrying about it.


I think those are also unlock-able via a personal quest, FYI.
 
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