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Subject: Smart monsters rss

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Jay Johnson
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Has anyone ever tried playing the game using modified AI where the monsters try to act a bit more strategically?

examples:
- ranged monsters kite to try to stay out of melee
- monsters with non-attack abilities move to maximize those abilities too (heals, loot)
- [an example inspired by a recent question posted elsewhere:] a muddled monster with a ranged attack steps back to avoid suffering retaliate damage from their adjacent focus

I'm sure there are many other possibilities for "smarter" monster play, but it also introduces alot more cases of ambiguity, and could possibly unbalance the game in certain cases.
 
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Martin DeOlden
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You would almost need a GM player for that to run the monsters instead of AI and having the players just move them together.
While it would be a neat way to bring in a 5th player it would also turn into a one against many game like Descent.
 
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Jay Johnson
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tawnos76 wrote:
You would almost need a GM player for that to run the monsters instead of AI and having the players just move them together.
While it would be a neat way to bring in a 5th player it would also turn into a one against many game like Descent.

for some of the "smart" moves, yes.
others would be fairly common sense.
 
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Brian Lewis
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It would change the game a lot. Right now it's more of a tactical game. I think you'd at least have to lower the difficulty because the game is balanced around rather dumb Monsters.
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Jay Johnson
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verballyinsane wrote:
It would change the game a lot. Right now it's more of a tactical game. I think you'd at least have to lower the difficulty because the game is balanced around rather dumb Monsters.

True. But it could be applied in some form for those that complain that the game gets "too easy" once players master the strategy and/or when characters get too powered up
 
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Mike Wonham
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Predictive monsters could get interesting. Ok - there isn't a valid hex now, but there will be cos my mate is hurt bad, so let's go there....
 
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Robert Marney
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This sounds cool, but actually makes combat less interesting. For instance, Dark Souls archers will kite if possible to stay out of melee range. In practice, this means they just pile up in the far corner of the room, and get killed by your rogue / wizard. Gloomhaven ranged monsters similarly have more range than players and move fast, so as soon as anyone starts moving towards them, they'll move all the way to the back wall and stay there forever, because there's no hex they can reach that's farther away from the Brute than the one they're currently standing on.
 
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Mark T
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JayJ79 wrote:

- [an example inspired by a recent question posted elsewhere:] a muddled monster with a ranged attack steps back to avoid suffering retaliate damage from their adjacent focus


In general, monsters with ranged attack will move away from an adjacent focus if they are able in order to remove disadvantage. So what's so special about the above case?
Yes, he's muddled, so he doesn't escape disadvantage this turn, but in general it would make sense to still step back, so that's probably what I would have him do.

Quote:
I'm sure there are many other possibilities for "smarter" monster play, but it also introduces a lot more cases of ambiguity, and could possibly unbalance the game in certain cases.


It seems like, to some extent, it's really up to you to play the monsters as smartly as you see fit. There are often multiple, equally valid options for a monster's move action. You then have the option to decide what is in the best interest of either your party or the monsters and make the move as you see fit. If you don't think the game is challenging enough, I see no reason why you couldn't implement anything you've listed in your original post.
 
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Jay Johnson
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Snardo wrote:
JayJ79 wrote:

- [an example inspired by a recent question posted elsewhere:] a muddled monster with a ranged attack steps back to avoid suffering retaliate damage from their adjacent focus


In general, monsters with ranged attack will move away from an adjacent focus if they are able in order to remove disadvantage. So what's so special about the above case?
Yes, he's muddled, so he doesn't escape disadvantage this turn, but in general it would make sense to still step back, so that's probably what I would have him do.

no, in the rules as written, they wouldn't move at all, since movement is determined solely by the desire to improve their attack on their focus (and to avoid traps/hazards whenever possible).
Since they are muddled, stepping back doesn't improve their attack, so going strictly by the RAW, they wouldn't go anywhere.
 
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