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Subject: Painting rss

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Michael Ross
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Hello all,
To those who already have the game, hope you are enjoying it! If you are like me and still waiting, it shouldn’t be long now. I think I am going to try and paint Rising Sun despite never having painted a mini before. (I paint, just not models etc.) I practiced on a figure from another game and the process does not seem bad at all. (At least the remedial process I will use) I was just wondering on when to apply the clear coat/ sealant spray? I used a simple Rust Oleum Flat Black base coat (had to wait 24+ for it to completely dry) used simple Apple Barrel paints. I purchased a Krylon Clear Acrylic Coating spray. I estimated to let the paints dry for at least 24 hours before applying. Should I wait longer? No need to wait that long? Thanks for any and all pointers to this new painter!
 
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Ian Barker
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So long as you're thinning the paints while using them, acrylics will dry within minutes. I usually spray a matte clear coat about half an hour to an hour after finishing the mini.

I also do two coats of clear coat. Once after the mini is finished, and once when I've finished the base of the mini.
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Michael Ross
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Thanks for the pointers Ian. By thinning, do you mean with water? Or actual thinner? Is that mandatory? What happens if the paint isn’t thinned out?

Apologies for all the probable stupid questions.
 
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Andrew Bonneau
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And since bases are going to snap on and off those monsters a lot, I usually do the border in a few coats of primer for its sticking strength. Then, like Ian said, go with at least two coats of varnish.
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Ben Michels
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Cmid21 wrote:
Thanks for the pointers Ian. By thinning, do you mean with water? Or actual thinner? Is that mandatory? What happens if the paint isn’t thinned out?

Apologies for all the probable stupid questions.


If you don't thin the paint a bit with water or some other medium, the paint may be too think and gloppy/chunky on the mini when it dries. This can cause some of the detail of the mini to be lost. Thinning the paints means you may have to go over some areas more than once, but the paint should dry much more smoothly.
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Michael Ross
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Ah, thank you for the explaination; wanted to make sure to clarify. I guess as a painter I just intuitively did that when painting the practice mini to avoid the globbing. ( with water)
Thanks for all the suggestions! I guess I can apply the final coat earlier than I thought.
 
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patrick
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Unless budget is the most important aspect of your project, I highly recommend upgrading most of your material choices. All of your mentioned products are what I WOULD typically suggest for someone getting their feet wet in the mini painting world. However, these minis are pretty high quality and deserve better overall products. This is similar to putting ketchup on kobe steaks prepared by world-class chefs.

My suggestions will raise your budget a bit, but will be worth it in final quality and ease of application.

Replace Rustoleum primer with either actual Miniature primers or automotive sandable scratch filling primer.

Replace Apple Barrel paints with paints specific to mini painting (Citadel, Vallejo, P3...) or you could even use professional acrylic paints form art stores like Liquitex (get bottled liquid form and not tubes).

Use Testors dullcote for final sealing.

Use distilled water to thin paints instead of tap water.

As mentioned above, these items will cost a bit more than your original plan, but will be well worth the investment.

Good luck with your endeavor. Painting minis is a rewarding hobby as much as gaming is.
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Jim Marshall
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I'd leave the minis for a few days after painting before putting a varnish over the top. If you varnish acrylic that has any moisture in it, it can go cloudy - I've experience of this

+1 for the recommendations to prime first (wash the mini beforehand), thin paint and for using decent materials - Vallejo paints are pretty good, as are the slightly more expensive Games Workshop / Citadel line.

If you go Vallejo, check out their different ranges. If it says 'Model ....' it's designed for static display models, if it says 'Game ....' it's designed for game components that will see some handling (that said, I've used 'Model' paints for games and with a coat or two of lacquer they've been fine).

If it says '.... Air' it's designed to shoot through an airbrush (but actually brushes nicely and needs less thinning), if it says '.... Color' it's designed for brushing, is thicker, and definitely needs to be thinned.

Also, there are a lot of specialised finishes and washes if you want to go nuts ... be careful, it's addictive!
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Andrew Bonneau
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Jim Marshall wrote:
...

If you go Vallejo, check out their different ranges. If it says 'Model ....' it's designed for static display models, if it says 'Game ....' it's designed for game components that will see some handling (that said, I've used 'Model' paints for games and with a coat or two of lacquer they've been fine).

...


Not entirely. The biggest thing you will find is that the Model line is more muted realistic tones and Game line is more vibrant and colorful line.
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Michael Ross
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Jim Marshall wrote:
I'd leave the minis for a few days after painting before putting a varnish over the top. If you varnish acrylic that has any moisture in it, it can go cloudy - I've experience of this

+1 for the recommendations to prime first (wash the mini beforehand), thin paint and for using decent materials - Vallejo paints are pretty good, as are the slightly more expensive Games Workshop / Citadel line.

If you go Vallejo, check out their different ranges. If it says 'Model ....' it's designed for static display models, if it says 'Game ....' it's designed for game components that will see some handling (that said, I've used 'Model' paints for games and with a coat or two of lacquer they've been fine).

If it says '.... Air' it's designed to shoot through an airbrush (but actually brushes nicely and needs less thinning), if it says '.... Color' it's designed for brushing, is thicker, and definitely needs to be thinned.

Also, there are a lot of specialised finishes and washes if you want to go nuts ... be careful, it's addictive!


Thanks, that was the time frame I was told as far as the finish... a couple days. Wonder why the previous poster said 1 hour. I think I’ll stick to a couple days wait upon your confirmation. As far as upgrading equipment. I definitely see the benefit of it, however:

These will be the only minis I ever paint(most likely)

I am not looking for professional grade as these will be relegated to the box after play.

I really bought RS for the gameplay, but just wanted to make it look a bit better. Painting is just a fun thing to do with my brother.

I just wanted to make sure I didn’t ruin the minis. I have been told that you can get an acceptable paint job on these basic utensils.

With this information would you still advocate upgrading the paints? Upgrading seems to substantially increase the price.
 
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Rhonda Bender
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Acrylic paint (regardless of brand or type) can feel dry to the touch in minutes, but it doesn't fully cure for at least 24 hours. I recommend letting the figures sit for a day or two before sealing them, and if possible before handling them in game play.

Gloss sealer is a lot stronger than matte sealer. If you want a matte appearance, you can seal first with gloss, then seal over that with matte to dull down the shine. If the shine starts coming back, just apply more matte. A spray can brand called Dullcote is the best at killing unwanted shine. Note that any spray product (including primer) is sensitive to environmental conditions and is best not used when it's very damp, very hot, or very cold. When using primer in poor conditions you can get a bumpy appearance often called fuzzy primer, and with sealer the finish can cloud over and affect the appearance of the paint. If the weather isn't too bad but non-optimal, you can spray outside and bring the figures inside to cure. (They will still off-gas chemicals, but less exposure than spraying inside.)

Good preparation before you even begin painting improves paint durability a lot. Scrub your figures with dish soap and water before applying primer! There are release agents used in the cast process, and the people who handled the figures at any stage along the way might have eaten a greasy lunch before touching your figures. ;->

Similarly, touch the figures as little as possible while painting them. Use double sided foam tape or poster tack to stick the figure onto some kind of mount (dice boxes, old prescription bottles, pieces of doweling, all kinds of options.) This is also much more comfortable on your hand, and allows you to easily turn them upside down to reach crevices. If you're batch painting identical figures, mount them on a paint can stir stick or ruler or similar surface.

I'm going to echo the recommendation to get paints designed for the purpose. They have much more concentrated pigments and better consistencies. I've been teaching miniature painting at conventions for years, and have spent a lot of time on forums dedicated to the hobby. I've seen people get great results with craft paints. But any of those people who go on to try proper miniature paints report that the process is much less frustrating with mini paints. Colours made from expensive or more transparent pigments require fewer coats, so there's less likelihood of clogging up details on the figure and a nicer texture in general.

I use and love Reaper Miniature paints. They're formulated by a miniature painter, and she actually mixes each batch of paint herself at their facility, and tweaks recipes based on feedback. Most paint lines are designed and then sent out to another company to be made. They thin down for making your own washes and glazes really well. But any mini paint is going to be better than Apple Barrel and the like, and pretty much all the brands I can think of oare good quality. If you get Vallejo paint, I might recommend against the Model series. I've heard a lot of people say they rub off more than many other paints, including other Vallejo paints. They were designed for historical miniature painters who put figures on a shelf to admire, not gamers.

Another alternative is to use artist paints. There are people who use tube acrylics, but that is a lot of thinning again, even more than with craft paint. Instead I would recommend Golden's line of Fluid Acrylics. (They also have an Extra Fluid line, but that seems like it's TOO thin for what we do, it's more for pen and ink use kind of thing.)

The best brushes for doing fine detail work are Kolinsky sable watercolour brushes. One brand is Winsor & Newton Series 7, but there are many other options. These keep a fine point that no synthetic can ever have. (I happily use synthetics for actual water colour painting, but could not do what I do as a mini painter without sables.) You don't need to use them for everything, just the fine details. So if you take care of them, they can last quite a while. Whatever brush(s) you get, rinse it out thoroughly during use and after, and occasionally use a brush cleaner on it. Acrylics are pernicious in bristles! I recommend The Masters Brush Cleaner. It's a cake soap sold in a little plastic dish. (There's even a travel size very little dish that's perfect for mini brushes.)
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Michael Ross
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Stratagon wrote:
Unless budget is the most important aspect of your project, I highly recommend upgrading most of your material choices. All of your mentioned products are what I WOULD typically suggest for someone getting their feet wet in the mini painting world. However, these minis are pretty high quality and deserve better overall products. This is similar to putting ketchup on kobe steaks prepared by world-class chefs.

My suggestions will raise your budget a bit, but will be worth it in final quality and ease of application.

Replace Rustoleum primer with either actual Miniature primers or automotive sandable scratch filling primer.

Replace Apple Barrel paints with paints specific to mini painting (Citadel, Vallejo, P3...) or you could even use professional acrylic paints form art stores like Liquitex (get bottled liquid form and not tubes).

Use Testors dullcote for final sealing.

Use distilled water to thin paints instead of tap water.

As mentioned above, these items will cost a bit more than your original plan, but will be well worth the investment.

Good luck with your endeavor. Painting minis is a rewarding hobby as much as gaming is.


Wow great information!

Please see my previous comment. I am not sure I am going to follow this advice, but this will definitely aid those that might be getting into mini painting and want a serious, high quality painting result.
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Michael Ross
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Rhonda,
Wow, thank you for taking the time to provide all this valuable information. You really provided everything someone might need to know. I did do some research so I washed the practice minis, tacted the mini on a wine cork,and used the Windsor series 7 brush. After reading your response I am worried that I should buy better paints. The practice mini turned out great (in my eyes) but the minis in RS have much more detail.

In reading my reasons for cheaper paint above (previous comment) would you recommend I upgrade? Or in your experiences opinion will I be fine with the paints I have?
 
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Rosen Crantz
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I also love reaper paints and use them almost exclusively. I too would recommend using them over Apple Barrel. You can get a Reaper "learn to paint" kit on amazon for about $30 bucks. They come with tutorial booklet with pictures, 3 minis, 11 paints, and a really nice case (with plenty of space for more paints). You'll quickly feel the difference between Reaper and Apple Barrel's consistency and pigmentation. I don't really dilute the Reaper paints at all (except for making washes), they are already at a perfect consistency for me. The guide book is well illustrated and does a great job of teaching you the basic techniques and some strategies for miniature painting. Reaper also isn't very expensive. If buying direct from reaper or an FLGS is a problem, online retailers like miniature market also carry them.

The kits do come with brushes, but, honestly, they aren't that great. I also agree with Rhonda about getting a Kolinsky sable brush. I've used Raphael and Rosemary&Co brand before and both work great. I've used store bought synthetics, and was super disappointed with them, almost no "snap" in the bristles and really hard to keep a fine point.

EDIT: I'm no pro or anything (been painting minis for ~4 years). I have some of what I've done in my gallery if you want to see how reaper paints look.

EDIT2: Sorry one final thing, the miniatures included in the learn to paint kits are reaper bones models, made using a material that doesn't require priming. For rising sun models, use a primer. I've used reaper black primer for all of my zombicide models and haven't had any problems with the paint job. One bottle goes a really long way (a complete black plague KS, + Kingdom Death, + miscellaneous minis all primed with only 2 bottles of reaper black primer. And I'm still using that second bottle).
 
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Kevin Bender
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rican919 wrote:
You can get a Reaper "learn to paint" kit


I’m immensely proud of my wife, Rhonda, who posted above. She is too humble to mention this, but she wrote and designed (wrote the tutorial, picked the minis and color choices) all of Reaper’s recent Learn to Paint kits.




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Rosen Crantz
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Whoa! I never made the connection that you’re THAT Rhonda Bender. I have older versions of them, but they taught me so much about miniature painting. My first models I painted before I bought the kit looked “ok” (a spartan warrior in my gallery, pre-learn to paint kit, looked rough), but after I bought the core skills kit and read the guide, my models were immensely improved, boosting my confidence and cementing miniature painting as a hobby of mine for years to follow. Thanks for designing such a wonderful learning tool!

PS: The skeleton archer in the kit was my first “properly” painted mini. The guide was so well put together that it made painting it fun and stress-free. The result was so good, a buddy of mine wanted to use in a Pathfinder game he was DMing for us. I still remember his surprise at how well it turned out.
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patrick
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Cmid21 wrote:


In reading my reasons for cheaper paint above (previous comment) would you recommend I upgrade? Or in your experiences opinion will I be fine with the paints I have?


My personal anecdote...

I paint hundreds of minis a year and I usually custom paint terrain on the bases. I keep using my high quality paints for this process which usually consists of smashing globs of paint on gravel and sand and then covering it over in a few layers. So I hear how some people use Apple Barrel with good results, and decide to try those for basing at least. My very first coat applied to a mini, dried thin and started to peel. When I tried to apply a second layer it started to clump into an awful mess. Now I had a terrible look, but also had spent more effort to get it. Needless to say, that bottle has bee relegated to the "maybe someday I'll use this on some weird project" box and has never seen light of day since.

Liquid artist paint or actual miniature paints is seriously important. It will make your process more enjoyable and also save you from some possible terrible results that could ruin such a nice set of figures (that didn't come cheap).

The automotive primer (spray outside only!) I suggest, is usually 5.99 a can and should not be that different in price from Rustoleum. Rustoleum is usually a primer sealer and great for outdoor furninture and home improvement projects, but not intended for miniatures.

One last suggestion. Start with your least favorite figures. Your skills will improve drastically over the course of this project. The last batch you do will most likely be your best.

Good luck and share some pics on your progress.
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Rhonda Bender
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The main issues I would see with the craft paint are that you might end up spending more time than you need to, and you might get more frustrated than you need to. Do you have a local game or hobby store that might sell miniature painting supplies? What I might recommend is that you pick up a couple of bottles of paint. I'd probably suggest a red and/or green, and maybe a skin tone. Then you can compare them to the craft paint and see how much of a difference you feel it makes. Red and green are often a little on the more transparent side, so you can test if it takes you a noticeable number more coats with the craft than the mini paint, and then also compare the general handling, how you like the finish and so on. You can use craft paint alongside miniature paint no problem, and freely mix the brands of acrylic miniature paint people have mentioned in this thread together.

You can mix your own colours with a basic set, so you don't need to get a bazillion. If you go that route, buy the bulk of the paints as fairly intense colours and medium tone (not too light, not too dark). Then buy a really dark blue, and a black, and a white, and a light yellow. For convenience sake buy at least one skin colour and one other kind of brown. It's easy to make a colour duller by adding a little grey or brown. It's easy to make a colour darker by adding the dark blue (purples, reds, experiment) or black, and make it lighter by adding the white or yellow (greens, reds). If there's a colour you mix often, consider buying it pre-mixed. Mixing can use more volume of paint as you might have to add three drops of white to one drop of your blue to lighten it as much as you want, but you might only need two drops of paint to paint the section in question, so you'll have dispensed twice as much as you need.

One note about buying paint at this time of year. Freezing is very bad for miniature paints. If you want to order away for paint and it might end up sitting on your doorstep for hours or even in a mail van if it's super cold where you live, you might want to wait to order until it isn't too cold.

If you buy a paint brand that comes in a dropper bottle (Reaper, Vallejo, Army Painter, I think there are a few others), the dropper holes are very tiny, so you can carefully dispense a small pool of paint. Also if paint doesn't come out, don't squeeze harder! Poke a pin or the end of a paperclip into the nozzle to clear the blockage.

Another way to save paint is to use a wet palette. It's easy to make a cheap home version of this. Get a Tupperware style storage container with fairly shallow walls. Fold up some paper towel on the bottom of it. Run water over it until it's almost sopping wet but not swimming in the water. Cut a piece of parchment paper (not wax paper, this is the stuff people use for lining cooking sheets when baking) and put it on top of the paper towel. It'll curl, but hold it down at the edges for a bit and it'll flatten out. You want all the water to stay under the parchment. Then put out your paint drops on top of the parchment paper. This creates a moist environment that keeps your paint wet for much longer while you are painting. You can put the lid on it to store the paint between sessions, or if you have to take a phone call or something. Note that eventually wet things stored in a sealed container will go mouldy, though you can slow that down by putting a few old pennies (pre 1983 I think) or some copper wire in with the paper towel. So now and then rinse stuff out and let it dry out and get new paper towel as necessary. If you don't want to keep the paint between sessions, you can just put the paper towel on a plastic plate and let it dry out between sessions.

My preferred spray primer is Duplicolor Sandable from the auto store. It's pretty forgiving for weather conditions (and I believe actually lists its preferred conditions on the can, which not all of them do), and it gives a great surface. You can get it in a variety of colours. If you're painting a lot of lighter colours like yellow and red, priming white will make your life easier. Priming in black also has its pluses, though, in that it is not too noticeable if you miss spots while painting. Grey sort of splits the difference. If you're painting a whole bunch of the same colour on sections of all the figures, you can try to get primer in that colour to save a step.

The Reaper learn to paint kits are a great deal, especially if you buy them off Amazon. (Though if you buy stuff direct from Reaper you get the freshest paint and they have promotions with purchase pretty regularly.) Basically you're paying for the paints and a couple of the minis, and you get the brushes and instructions and a snazzy storage case for free.

I designed the kits to work together to give you a decent paint selection and technique toolbox that you can use for a wide variety of figures, not just the ones in the boxes. I don't get any residuals off sales of the kits, so I'm not pushing them for self-serving reasons or anything. :->

Rosen Crantz - thank you so much for the kind words! It always makes me so happy to know that I was able to help someone! Your figures look terrific. I especially like the skin on your Kingdom Death figures. Looking at your gallery it is clear that you have put a lot of work and practice in, and that it is paying off for you!
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Michael Ross
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That is definitely something to be proud of! Thanks again Rhonda for the information. I think I am going to follow your suggestions and test out several different bottles of paint for comparison. I also picked up the Reaper learn to paint kit through Amazon. I wish I could have you sign it! Hahah

I also might use your suggestion for primer. I primed several practice minis with the basic rust oleum brand (as shown in a Dice Tower video). The primer seemed to dry pretty quickly however after 72+ hours the primer is still slightly sticky to the touch. Is this normal, and ok to paint over? Will this affect the paint job? I have received a response that it was alright if the primer is still sticky, but I wanted to consult your expert and famous opinion.
 
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Hm, are the minis you primed the softer more bendable kind of plastic? Some of these, like Reaper Bones, do not reliably work well with spray products, particularly in some weather conditions. The usual problem is what you've had, the primer stays sticky.

I don't prime Reaper Bones, they take paint directly just fine. I don't know if that is true of all soft plastics, though. You could test by painting one and leaving it to sit for a few days then rubbing it with your fingers and seeing if the paint comes off.

So I don't have a ton of experience painting over sticky primer. I did have some test Bones once that I primed. The primer was a little tacky when I painted. The paint applied fine. The paint was not as durable as the ones where I just painted on directly or used brush on primer. (These figures got pretty abused as part of the testing.)

If it's super sticky or even runny, I wouldn't try since it might damage your brushes. If it's just a little tacky, it's probably fine. You could try blowing a hairdryer or heat gun on the figures on the low setting and see if that helps cure the primer a little harder. (It's also a great tip for speeding up basecoat and washes drying!) For a high dryer you could use the high setting probably, but go carefully with heat and plastics to make sure you're not damaging the figures. (Reaper Bones take a ton of heat, they'll go soft and bendy when hot, but not take permanent damage. But high heat can cause more problems for different kinds of plastics. Particularly the nice resin that some miniatures come in.
 
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Jason Withers
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Wren wrote:
Freezing is very bad for miniature paints. If you want to order away for paint and it might end up sitting on your doorstep for hours or even in a mail van if it's super cold where you live, you might want to wait to order until it isn't too cold.


What does it do if the paints get frozen? I just bought Scale75's gold/bronze NMM kit and a few of the paints included are a really poor consistency. They're yellows so there's always a chance that's just how those particular colors are, but the rest have extremely good coverage while these feel kind of like soup when trying to mix them with water.
 
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If the paint gets frozen it gets gummy or gloppy, at least in my own experience and what I recall seeing from others who've had issues with it. I have heard of it happening with yellows particularly, but I'd consider that somewhat anecdotal. There is no way to recover paint that's been frozen and 'gone off', it's not quite the same issue as paint that starts to thicken up over time due to water evaporation, and which can often be saved with addition of water and thorough stirring.

I'm not sure if that is the same kind of issue that you're describing. What I might suggest is to try to go on Scale 75's Facebook group or a miniatures forum somewhere with users of that paint brand to confirm whether that's the usual behaviour of those colours or something different. Yellows are notoriously poor coverage as it's a transparent pigment, but the part about not wanting to mix with water sounds a bit odder. Some paint bases (the medium and such that the pigment is added to to create the paint) do differ in consistency and behaviour to others, though, so there can be differences in how some colours feel/act compared to others in the same line.

Apologies for taking a while to refind this thread and answer this question!
 
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I would be interested in hearing more about the kits. I would love for my rising sun set to be painted but the task seems very daunting and expensive for someone like me who has never done this before. Would there be a kit that one should look into for just rising sun? I have no experience painting minis whatsoever, so fully explaining things would be better for me. To get an idea what i am getting into, for rising sun kickstarter exclusives and expansion what would I need to pick up in order to fully paint my set and it look pretty good? I love Amazon so Amazon links are fine for me. Thanks for all the great advice thus far.
 
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This is a wonderful kit that comes with pretty much everything you'll need to get started, including an illustrated tutorial walking you through a 3 step painting method (basecoat, wash, highlight) that works quite well. It also provides practice minis. The minis are Reaper Bones that don't require priming, but I would prime the Rising Sun minis prior to painting.

https://www.amazon.com/Reaper-Miniatures-08906-Learn-Paint/d...

If you purchase the kit directly from Reaper, they usually have a lot of promotions going that will net you free minis.
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Cmid21 wrote:
Stratagon wrote:
Unless budget is the most important aspect of your project, I highly recommend upgrading most of your material choices. All of your mentioned products are what I WOULD typically suggest for someone getting their feet wet in the mini painting world. However, these minis are pretty high quality and deserve better overall products. This is similar to putting ketchup on kobe steaks prepared by world-class chefs.

My suggestions will raise your budget a bit, but will be worth it in final quality and ease of application.

Replace Rustoleum primer with either actual Miniature primers or automotive sandable scratch filling primer.

Replace Apple Barrel paints with paints specific to mini painting (Citadel, Vallejo, P3...) or you could even use professional acrylic paints form art stores like Liquitex (get bottled liquid form and not tubes).

Use Testors dullcote for final sealing.

Use distilled water to thin paints instead of tap water.

As mentioned above, these items will cost a bit more than your original plan, but will be well worth the investment.

Good luck with your endeavor. Painting minis is a rewarding hobby as much as gaming is.


Wow great information!

Please see my previous comment. I am not sure I am going to follow this advice, but this will definitely aid those that might be getting into mini painting and want a serious, high quality painting result.


Don't use scratch filling primer. You'll lose finer details in the minis.
 
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