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Subject: The Russian Campaign Designer Signature Edition: Brilliant wargame or Nostalgia ? rss

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Mike Richardson
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My second ever wargame back in the 80s was Russian campaign (first was Third Reich)

I will undoubtedly get the new version this year but it got me thinking; am i buying this because it is a great balance of simulation and playability or am I being sentimental about an old game that has had its day and, therefore, there are much better games at this scale on this subject.

A big piece of my thinking is that actually this new version might be way more than nostalgia.

But I am not sure. I wonder what people think and what would people say would be a better purchase if one wanted a relatively simple Eastern Front game.
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Leo Zappa
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gasha1 wrote:
My second ever wargame back in the 80s was Russian campaign (first was Third Reich)

I will undoubtedly get the new version this year but it got me thinking; am i buying this because it is a great balance of simulation and playability or am I being sentimental about an old game that has had its day and, therefore, there are much better games at this scale on this subject.

A big piece of my thinking is that actually this new version might be way more than nostalgia.

But I am not sure. I wonder what people think and what would people say would be a better purchase if one wanted a relatively simple Eastern Front game.


I own a number of games on this subject matter. I'm not aware of any 'much better' games at this scale on this subject. I'm aware of games that emphasize different aspects of this subject, or use different mechanisms to address the design challenges of an Eastern Front game, but I could not call any one of them 'much better', just different. I too have preordered this new edition and eagerly await its arrival.
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Robb Minneman
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Jackasses? You let a whole column get stalled and strafed on account of a couple of jackasses? What the hell's the matter with you?
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Who's reprinting it? Anyone have a link to it, please?
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J S
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https://www.gmtgames.com/p-591-the-russian-campaign-designer...
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Ken Kmak
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If I were you I would buy Russia Besieged instead which is also being re-issued in a few months by Compass Games. I think it is a better simulation. Or better yet try to buy a lightly used copy of The Dark Valley. My $0.02.
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Mark Lindberg
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You might want to check out No Retreat! The Russian Front. It also has very low counter density. Probably a bit more complex than RC, but not too much.
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Scott Gillispie
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Note that mounted mapboards are a separate P500 listing. Also, it's on GMTs current plan for summer 2018, according to the January update.

Personally, I've had my TRC third edition for 35 years; I've played it enough that the counters are badly faded from handling. I don't know that I'll ever get a chance again to play it with someone else (I've been an utter failure so far at interesting my kids in hex and counter), but I will definitely solitaire the new version; call it a 60% nostalgia purchase for me.

Not unprecedented for me to buy a replacement either; I bought a second Kingmaker when my original one faded out from use, about 1995. That was my most played AH multiplayer game; TRC was my most played two-player.
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Mike Richardson
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I should point out I own No Retreat and The Dark Valley and I have looked at all sorts of alternatives, eg Russia Besieged. I am not a newbie to this subject by any means.

I just find it increasingly difficult to decide what constitutes a brilliant wargame these days since the choices are vast on this subject alone.



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J S
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Panzer2C wrote:
If I were you I would buy Russia Besieged instead which is also being re-issued in a few months by Compass Games. I think it is a better simulation. Or better yet try to buy a lightly used copy of The Dark Valley. My $0.02.


The Dark Valley is also on the p500 right now for reprint. Another one that I'm excited about is The Dark Sands.
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Mike Richardson
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Getting back to the original point; how good a simulation of the Russian campaign is "The Russian Campaign"? If it isnt... why not?

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Ben Bosmans
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gasha1 wrote:
Getting back to the original point; how good a simulation of the Russian campaign is "The Russian Campaign"? If it isnt... why not?



A simulation is as good as the individual player thinks it is ...

That's all there is to know really.

For some that might be Drang nach Osten or War in Europe with 6000 counters and 9 gigantic maps or Fire in the East with ALL expansions included.

All I know is ... that in 1979... I played War in the East solo for 3 months long at 6 hours a day solo (to simulate the first 8 months of Operation Barbarossa) and while it was EPIC ...

A few months later I played The Russian Campaign and found more fun and equally challenging game play with huge breakthroughs the 3 Army groups, the supply, the train repairs, the winter effects etc... etc...

No it was certainly not on the same scale, but TRC did the job in a great extremely fluid package with 6 pages of basic rules and ... playable in just a few hours for the shorter scenarios.

Watching the cramped rule books with exceptions all over the place in most recent "wargames", I can only smile. TRC is playable not "stockable".

That's why I love games like The Lamps Are Going Out.

Less is more.



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Ivor Bolakov
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gasha1 wrote:
Getting back to the original point; how good a simulation of the Russian campaign is "The Russian Campaign"? If it isnt... why not?



I'm certainly not experienced compared to some who have been playing it since before I was born, but TRC seems to have a modicum of historical value combined with ease of play, which is very valuable to a lot of players. Its sim qualities sound like they've improved with this edition (updated OoB, new special rules, etc). Hopefully it remains just as easy to pick up.

Arguably that's better than the completely accurate consim you never play because it's a pain in the arse.
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Jeffrey D Myers
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This thread has some interesting discussion, including a fair bit on people's thoughts about TRC:

https://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/1921562/new-barbarossa-...
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Bryan Felsher
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To answer the question very directly, it is without a shadow of a doubt a brilliant design that is extremely fun to play. Even if it was just released within the last 5 years, I believe it would be well received. The game is just incredibly fun, and it is possible to achieve historical results without being pigeon holed into them by tons and tons of rules and exceptions. There have been other efforts to do the Russian front with as simple rules. But I don’t know of any games as simple that have succeeded as well. If there are, I am very interested.
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Why not both?
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Steve Fowler
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Green Germans? Ugh, looks like US counters. Liked the color of the old Russian counters better. Not a deal breaker but just sayin.....
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gasha1 wrote:
My second ever wargame back in the 80s was Russian campaign (first was Third Reich)

I will undoubtedly get the new version this year but it got me thinking; am i buying this because it is a great balance of simulation and playability or am I being sentimental about an old game that has had its day and, therefore, there are much better games at this scale on this subject.

A big piece of my thinking is that actually this new version might be way more than nostalgia.

But I am not sure. I wonder what people think and what would people say would be a better purchase if one wanted a relatively simple Eastern Front game.


Does it matter?
If you want to add it to your collection, have at it. A GMT take on an Avalon Hill classic would be interesting.
Third Reich was my first game as well. It was a combination of curiosity and nostalgia that lead me to buy the Avalanche Press version, and I'll probably end up buying the LnL version as well for the same reasons.
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michael dorazio
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I am buying it, because:

A) Original is well-regarded, and decades of playtesting
B) Three most recent solo games have been Vietnam
C) GMT does good work
D) I need more unplayed games
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Eddy Sterckx
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gasha1 wrote:
... what would people say would be a better purchase if one wanted a relatively simple Eastern Front game.


While I love TRC, I found that one design that tops it for me : Sturm Nach Osten - simple, playable, challenging, just the right amount of chrome, etc.

What irked me about TRC are the rivers running through the hexes, not along the hexsides.
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JLPreiser wrote:
A GMT take on an Avalon Hill classic would be interesting.

I never played the original TRC, but I was... not impressed with their changes in No Retreat! The Russian Front.
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Eddy Sterckx
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JLPreiser wrote:

Third Reich was my first game as well.


Me three. Talk about getting thrown in at the deep end - good times



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kuhrusty wrote:
JLPreiser wrote:
A GMT take on an Avalon Hill classic would be interesting.

I never played the original TRC, but I was... not impressed with their changes in No Retreat! The Russian Front.

It's being distributed by GMT but is actually a Consim Press product.
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Gregg Keizer
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Fargofootball wrote:
Green Germans? Ugh, looks like US counters. Liked the color of the old Russian counters better. Not a deal breaker but just sayin.....


When I was a kid, all we had was the pink and blue of Stalin-effin'-grad, and we liked it.

We played on a board that was winter every season, and we marched uphill no matter which way we moved, whether east or west, north or south. We slugged our way into cities, only to find that each was just like every other. Moscow? Same cross-hatching as Stalingrad. Leningrad? Same as Moscow.

We had soak-offs, for cryin' out loud, we had to wrestle 7-10-4 demons from Hell and scrape for every lousy combat factor. And when we played by mail -- mail mind you, not email -- we had to list stocks to simulate die rolls.

Be happy that you have a choice of which Eastern Front game you play. I didn't. And look what happened to me.
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Mike Richardson
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eddy_sterckx wrote:
JLPreiser wrote:

Third Reich was my first game as well.


Me three. Talk about getting thrown in at the deep end - good times





Indeed: I learnt to play wargames with Third Reich as a 15 year old. Strangely I found it a breeze to learn (not to say play well I should add) but later on found I just couldn't get my head round (some) allegedly much simpler games.

Guess it just depends on the rulebook.



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Previous Thread on RC "Designer Signature Edition" before production slipped a year . Maybe the answer is here? I still play the L2 Version mostly.

www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/1643900/consim-press-russian-ca...
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