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Subject: Mage Knight vs Star Trek: Frontiers rss

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Bill Cook
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My understanding is that these two games are very similar. Yet Mage Knight Board Game is rated 16th on BGG, while Star Trek: Frontiers is rated 805.

Any reason for the huge difference?
 
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JPotter
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Yep. MK has 21K ratings. Its older and it came first.

STF has 869 ratings.

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Silver Robert
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When in doubt, blame WizKids' incompetence.
 
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Robert Cannon
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People that love Mage Knight stuck with that. People that love Star Trek find the game doesn't quite capture the spirit of Star Trek (it seems). I have the game but haven't had a chance to play yet.
 
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April W
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I have (and love) ST: Frontiers, but haven't played Mage Knight Board Game. Yes, I think the difference is (a) Mage Knight is older and has way more reviews and a bigger following, and (b) Frontiers, to me, doesn't seem to have a whole lot of publicity/ awareness. I think it's a fantastic game, though, and I'm sure I'd feel the same about MK if I played it.
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Matthew Taylor
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I own and have played both. I prefer STF, but they are both good games.
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Michael McCaughey
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Clearly, this is a case of BGG taking sides in the Star Trek vs Star Wars debate.
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Michael Gardner
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They are very similar with Frontiers streamlining a few things. I prefer Frontiers but I'm a Trek fan.

Some possibilities that could explain the differences in ratings:

1.) People often prefer the original.
2.) People are turned off by Trek
3.) It isn't different enough to warrant even trying the Trek version unless you're a Trekkie
4.) It's a heavy system, limiting those that would even try it. Those that would already have, and see no need to mess with it.
5.) I've seen it expressed among those that love MK that the Trek version dumbs it down unnecessarily and to the detriment of gameplay. YMMV.
6.) MK has expansions that make it better (Frontiers just got one. FYI)
7.) People have grown to get sick of Wizkids quality control.

Disclosure:
I thoroughly enjoyed MK and like Frontiers even more. I think if they had painted Star Wars onto the system, people would have loved it and it would already be in the top 100. Such is the world.
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Matthew Schoell
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Star Trek Frontiers mapped very closely on to Mage Knight. I can't remember the details specifically, but STF had a particular type of weapon, "photon torpedos" which was basically the equivalent of "fire attack".

It's one thing to use the same system, but once I saw that the main changes to the game really could simply be created with "Find/Replace" computer functions, it really turned me off to STF.
 
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Matt Brown
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Okemos
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aesthetocyst wrote:
Yep. MK has 21K ratings. Its older and it came first.

STF has 869 ratings.



MK also has a higher score. Frontiers is more streamlined, but I think people looking for a beast of a solo game don't mind MK's complexity.
 
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Joe Martineau
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Maybe I'll just stay home and play KDM.
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Frontiers is simpler and therefore worse.

(I am half joking.)
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HenningK
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I have not played Frontiers, but from what I read about it, it sounds like it removed a little of the complexity which resulted in a dramatic loss of difficulty and interesting decisions. The game sounds like it took away maybe 10% of Mage Knight's complexity while removing 50% of the challenge. It is still way too complex and long for 4 players or casual gamers, while not being as tense, rewarding or fulfilling as Mage Knight.

(And I think Picard flying around murdering all kinds of other species is just wrong. whistle)
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Jamie Kessinger
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Kirk Agathon wrote:
Disclosure:
I thoroughly enjoyed MK and like Frontiers even more. I think if they had painted Star Wars onto the system, people would have loved it and it would already be in the top 100. Such is the world.


Sadly, this is very true.
 
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JPotter
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matthean wrote:
aesthetocyst wrote:
Yep. MK has 21K ratings. Its older and it came first.

STF has 869 ratings.



MK also has a higher score. Frontiers is more streamlined, but I think people looking for a beast of a solo game don't mind MK's complexity.


Yes MK gets a higher proportion of 9s and 10s, for the reasons listed in this thread (STF is an arbitrary force mapping of star trek IP onto a preexisting system, dumbed down in an attempt at wider appeal (dumbing down is not the way to win over trekkies!), and it is cursed by its ip....will only get 10s from those for whom it is both a great game and a great representation of trek; MK just has to be a great game (how many MK:tBG players ever played Mage Knight the minis game???)).

For all those reasons, MK will always be rated higher. BUT, the thing holding STF down in the ranks is a lack of votes. The dummy votes still weigh out down a bit. Give it another thousand our two ratings in the same mode as the first 900, and it will rise a lot.

Double BUT! Games typically get more lower ratings over time.

Yet there is still hope. Expansions are being released for STF.
 
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