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Subject: Can earth dragon end a battle? rss

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Mark Turner
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If earth dragon moves the only figure of another player out of a province at the start of battle, is that player now out of the battle, or still in it?

I suspect that as the phrase is 'at the start of battle', rather than 'before a battle begins', that they are still in it, but I am not confident about that. Thoughts?
 
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Jon Houghton
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I think the battle still continues, as this happens at the start of the battle, not before the battle begins. Therefore the player who had his figure removed could still win thr battle if they add Ronin, or they take the Earth Dragon hostage and this was the only other player’s figure, and they win the tie with honor.
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Mark Turner
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jhoughto123 wrote:
I think the battle still continues, as this happens at the start of the battle, not before the battle begins. Therefore the player who had his figure removed could still win thr battle if they add Ronin, or they take the Earth Dragon hostage and this was the only other player’s figure, and they win the tie with honor.


Yes, this was my interpretation.

Makes the earth dragon a lot less powerful!
 
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Jon Houghton
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It doesn’t specify which figure you push out, so i think it’s main use is moving monsters out of the battle
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Mark Turner
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jhoughto123 wrote:
It doesn’t specify which figure you push out, so i think it’s main use is moving monsters out of the battle


or daimyo!
 
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marco cenni
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No Daimyo, only shinto, bushi o montster

pag.6 "Daimyo – This is the leader of your forces and your most reliable figure. It cannot be taken Hostage by other players and cannot be removed from the Map by a Betray action. It is also immune to other special effects, such as a Monster’s ability to automatically kill a figure.

All special effects
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Mark Turner
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marko980 wrote:
No Daimyo, only shinto, bushi o montster

pag.6 "Daimyo – This is the leader of your forces and your most reliable figure. It cannot be taken Hostage by other players and cannot be removed from the Map by a Betray action. It is also immune to other special effects, such as a Monster’s ability to automatically kill a figure.

All special effects


Aha! Yes, I had a feeling there was something like this.
 
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Mike Beiter
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As long as you had at least 1 figure present when a battle is initiated in a privence, you get to participate.
So if yout lone figire is captuted or moved etc. You can still bid on ronin or poets or whatever you want.
 
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Mark Turner
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MajaiofDreams wrote:
As long as you had at least 1 figure present when a battle is initiated in a privence, you get to participate.
So if yout lone figire is captuted or moved etc. You can still bid on ronin or poets or whatever you want.


Indeed. The slight ambiguity came in the phrase 'at the start of battle'. Has it been initiated at that point or not? It would seem that we all agree that it has been.
 
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Mike Beiter
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MrMT wrote:
MajaiofDreams wrote:
As long as you had at least 1 figure present when a battle is initiated in a privence, you get to participate.
So if yout lone figire is captuted or moved etc. You can still bid on ronin or poets or whatever you want.


Indeed. The slight ambiguity came in the phrase 'at the start of battle'. Has it been initiated at that point or not? It would seem that we all agree that it has been.


Yep. They should have added a caviot in the rulebook that says, "once a battle is declared in a provence, a player still is considered present, even if all their figures are removed."

 
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Mr. Octavius
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MrMT wrote:
MajaiofDreams wrote:
As long as you had at least 1 figure present when a battle is initiated in a privence, you get to participate.
So if yout lone figire is captuted or moved etc. You can still bid on ronin or poets or whatever you want.


Indeed. The slight ambiguity came in the phrase 'at the start of battle'. Has it been initiated at that point or not? It would seem that we all agree that it has been.


You can't have something happen "at the start of battle" and then not have a battle.
If there's no battle then you should not have been able to use an "at start of battle" ability, which means the figure would should be in the province, which means you would have a battle and push it out of the province, which means there's no battle...
In order to avoid paradoxes the battle still occurs, the player pushed out is still a participant.
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Sean Badger
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MajaiofDreams wrote:
MrMT wrote:
MajaiofDreams wrote:
As long as you had at least 1 figure present when a battle is initiated in a privence, you get to participate.
So if yout lone figire is captuted or moved etc. You can still bid on ronin or poets or whatever you want.


Indeed. The slight ambiguity came in the phrase 'at the start of battle'. Has it been initiated at that point or not? It would seem that we all agree that it has been.


Yep. They should have added a caviot in the rulebook that says, "once a battle is declared in a provence, a player still is considered present, even if all their figures are removed."


It's pretty much stated as such between the following two examples.

On page 22, under Seppuku:
"Note that the player is still in the Battle, even if they no
longer have any figures in the Province."

Also on page 23, under Battle Outcome:
"NOTE: If, at the end of a Battle, no players have any Force left in the
Province, the player with the highest Honor wins"
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Mark Turner
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omninom wrote:
MajaiofDreams wrote:
MrMT wrote:
MajaiofDreams wrote:
As long as you had at least 1 figure present when a battle is initiated in a privence, you get to participate.
So if yout lone figire is captuted or moved etc. You can still bid on ronin or poets or whatever you want.


Indeed. The slight ambiguity came in the phrase 'at the start of battle'. Has it been initiated at that point or not? It would seem that we all agree that it has been.


Yep. They should have added a caviot in the rulebook that says, "once a battle is declared in a provence, a player still is considered present, even if all their figures are removed."


It's pretty much stated as such between the following two examples.

On page 22, under Seppuku:
"Note that the player is still in the Battle, even if they no
longer have any figures in the Province."

Also on page 23, under Battle Outcome:
"NOTE: If, at the end of a Battle, no players have any Force left in the
Province, the player with the highest Honor wins"


Only if you assume that 'at the start of a battle' means that the battle has already commenced.
 
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Bone White
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MrMT wrote:
Only if you assume that 'at the start of a battle' means that the battle has already commenced.


I don't see any argument why this would not be true.
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Dwayne Platt

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Has anyone else found the earth dragon to be overpowered when it comes to moving other monsters? Seems broken that he can force out another monster who is more powerful than he.... especially since he is a spring monster and can do this repeatedly. We houseruled it to stipulate that he can move a figure of equal or lesser power, but I may be missing something?
 
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Andrew Boyd
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We had a stiff debate in a game because the earth dragon owner was convinced that it should be able to force the daimyo to move because the daimyo is a figure and the card says "a figure." I showed the "and other special effects" rule pertaining to daimyos but that didn't end the debate. No consensus was reached.

It would be nice to have something more explicit in the rules or FAQ to point to that an earth dragon can't force out a daimyo.
 
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Niall Smyth
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HopRodRye34 wrote:
We had a stiff debate in a game because the earth dragon owner was convinced that it should be able to force the daimyo to move because the daimyo is a figure and the card says "a figure." I showed the "and other special effects" rule pertaining to daimyos but that didn't end the debate. No consensus was reached.

It would be nice to have something more explicit in the rules or FAQ to point to that an earth dragon can't force out a daimyo.


The FAQ was specific that effects which target a figure don’t affect daimyou, only effects which target a player or every player. That should be enough.
 
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Andrew Boyd
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Ok, thanks.
 
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Eric Harman
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HopRodRye34 wrote:
We had a stiff debate in a game because the earth dragon owner was convinced that it should be able to force the daimyo to move because the daimyo is a figure and the card says "a figure." I showed the "and other special effects" rule pertaining to daimyos but that didn't end the debate. No consensus was reached.

It would be nice to have something more explicit in the rules or FAQ to point to that an earth dragon can't force out a daimyo.


I'm pretty sure the FAQ specifically called out the earth dragon (the first FAQ at least)
 
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Vincennes Faronto
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Then, what about in case of the snake lady? Say she goes from kyushu to hokkaido.
Does the owner of snake lady still have a fight/war ini kyushu?
 
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