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Subject: Noob question rss

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Chris Hier
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I've called around and found the game at one of my local game stores, now the w
Question is whether to buy or not. Here are my issues:
1. My gaming "group" would consist of me primarily and my wife occasionally. Too few to enjoy the game?
2. We are both at best casual gamers. I am not opposed to moving to deeper waters, but I will have to be able to clearly and easily be able to explain the game to my wife. Is this a good first "heavy" game?
Its a big expensive game that's hard to find, I don't want to miss out if it ends due to production problems, but I don't want to buy it just to have it sit in the closet when someone else could have enjoyed it.

Thanks for the advice!
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Brian Lewis
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2 is not too few to enjoy this game. Whether it's for you depends on a lot more factors. The game won't be out of print any time soon.

Edit: There's nothing on your profile for me to go off. "Casual gamer" encompasses a wide demographic. What games do you (both of you) play/enjoy? What is, in your opinion, the heaviest game you've played? What's drawing you to Gloomhaven?
 
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Luke
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Pyrix137 wrote:
I've called around and found the game at one of my local game stores, now the w
Question is whether to buy or not. Here are my issues:
1. My gaming "group" would consist of me primarily and my wife occasionally. Too few to enjoy the game?
2. We are both at best casual gamers. I am not opposed to moving to deeper waters, but I will have to be able to clearly and easily be able to explain the game to my wife. Is this a good first "heavy" game?
Its a big expensive game that's hard to find, I don't want to miss out if it ends due to production problems, but I don't want to buy it just to have it sit in the closet when someone else could have enjoyed it.

Thanks for the advice!


Hi!

Great questions.

1. Two is a great number, you'll have lots of fun. Just don't combine the music notes class and the saw class as they're harder as a party of two.

2. This is a heavy strategy game. I can't honestly recommend it as a good intro to heavy strategy games. If you're not used to this style of strategic play, Gloomhaven can be very difficult at first.

It assumes skills in resource management, planning multiple turns ahead, weighing probabilities, and tactical positioning.

Those can all be learned, obviously, but Gloomhaven expects you to know them when you show up. Basically zero hand-holding.

Mice & Mystics is a great causal dungeon-crawler to start with. The D&DAS games haven't held up over the years, so I think you can pass on them. Although if you really want to try them, Temple of Elemental Evil is the one to get.

Zombicide: Black Plague is similar to dungeon crawlers in many ways and is also casual friendly.

I've been enjoying Massive Darkness, but I have a hard time recommending that one as parts of it are terribly broken and it helps to have some skill with house-ruling half-finished games before you dive in. Also a medium-light dungeon crawler, but with more modifiers to track than the others I've mentioned.

If you'd like something a little heavier, but not too heavy, Star Wars: Imperial Assault with the recently released app is a great co-op dungeon crawl. If you'd prefer that in a fantasy setting with a bit more content in the app at the moment, try Descent 2nd edition. I think SW:IA is the more refined of the two.

Hopefully that helps!
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Robert Marney
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Two players is just fine to enjoy this game, but it can be very intimidating. There is no real tutorial or hand-holding phase to introduce your wife to the complex decision-making in the game, and the sheer quantity of stuff can turn people off even though most of the bits are pretty straightforward (road/city events for example, or the map).

If your wife is used to fantasy dungeons with complex characters in other media, like D&D or World of Warcraft, she can pick up Gloomhaven pretty quickly. Otherwise, it will take a while.
 
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Matthew Gardner
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I bought this game for the solo experience and am loving it. I am in a similar situation as you, and primarily play games with my wife who enjoys co-op games of “moderate” complexity. She would NOT enjoy Gloomhaven - not because it is too complex, but because as others have so aptly described it, it’s like a tactical puzzle or math optimization problem at its core. I know that sounds dry, but it really is an excellent game. I just recognize that it’s not for everyone.

For reference, here are co-op games we have played together that she enjoys: Star Wars Imperial Assault (via App), Mansions of Madness 2nd Edition, Arkham Horror, Eldritch Horror, Elder Sign, Arkham Horror: Card Game (yes, FFG is well represented at our household). Here are co-op games we have tried that she does not care for: LotR LCG, Warhammer Adventure Card Game, Pathfinder Card Game.
 
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Chris Hier
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Thanks for the quick replies guys! When I say causual gamer I mean your standard monopoly, uno, etc. Family games. We recently bought last night on earth and had a blast. We also have dungeons and dragons wrath of ashardalon. All that being said, I'm a quick study, and with the amount of support this game is getting here I'm sure any questions I have would be quickly addressed. The draw to the game for me is mostly theme, scope, and the "story crafting" even the fact that the event cards give "choices" screams individual experience. Just looks awesome.
 
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Matthew Gardner
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Pyrix137 wrote:
When I say causual gamer I mean your standard monopoly, uno, etc. Family games.


I think Gloomhaven would be an exceedingly risky purchase for you. Maybe you both would love it, but it’s going to be very expensive to find out. There are other games out there that would make better “gateway” games, maybe try one of those first. It would be much less of an investment and provide a gentler introduction into the hobby. And if it suits you, and you are hungry for more - come back and find Gloomhaven.
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Fito R
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Pyrix137 wrote:
Thanks for the quick replies guys! When I say causual gamer I mean your standard monopoly, uno, etc. Family games. We recently bought last night on earth and had a blast. We also have dungeons and dragons wrath of ashardalon. All that being said, I'm a quick study, and with the amount of support this game is getting here I'm sure any questions I have would be quickly addressed. The draw to the game for me is mostly theme, scope, and the "story crafting" even the fact that the event cards give "choices" screams individual experience. Just looks awesome.
If theme is your biggest attraction to the game, know this. The rules are myriad, they are very fiddly and they are the opposite of thematic. It is extremely rule heavy, and it is extremely mechanically driven. This is not a light romp through the woods. I might suggest lighter games that are also "campaigns in a box", such as Legends of Andor, or even some of the newer D&D games like Dragonfire. But Gloomhaven is as far away from Uno as finger skateboarding is from Formula 1 racing.
 
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Chris Rees
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You can try the first scenario over on Tabletopia and see if you like it or not
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Luke
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Serneum wrote:
You can try the first scenario over on Tabletopia and see if you like it or not


Based on the OP's responses, I think this is the best option. It's free, yes?

If you like the first scenario, you'll like the rest of the game. That style of combat is 90% of what you will experience.
 
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Sean Fletcher
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Pyrix137 wrote:
Thanks for the quick replies guys! When I say causual gamer I mean your standard monopoly, uno, etc. Family games...


Wow. That’s quite a jump.

This is in no way a judgement on your commitment to embracing gaming as a hobby, just a baseline to establish how complex Gloomhaven is: Gloomhaven may wind up hitting you like an 80-ton truck. I’m a pretty heavy gamer, and it took me almost six hours to set up, play, and close down my first solo run of the game. And that’s after probably 15-20 hours of prepping and sorting the pieces into manageable storage and organization bins.

In the end, working your way up to Gloomhaven is SERIOUSLY worth it, but I’d recommend an intermediate step or three before investing in it — especially with the price tag screaming around the way it is currently.
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Chris Hier
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Thanks again for the replies! I never meant to imply I was interested in "uno +" however, your meaning is well taken. Is suppose I will pass at this time. Thanks for saving me money! I'll look into the other games you guys have listed here. Any of them offer a type of "choose your own adventure" feeling to them? What I would really like to find is something that has an open world feel where there is an end goal for the game, but there are choices the player can make to get there.
 
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Fito R
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Pyrix137 wrote:
Thanks again for the replies! I never meant to imply I was interested in "uno +" however, your meaning is well taken. Is suppose I will pass at this time. Thanks for saving me money! I'll look into the other games you guys have listed here. Any of them offer a type of "choose your own adventure" feeling to them? What I would really like to find is something that has an open world feel where there is an end goal for the game, but there are choices the player can make to get there.
I just remembered another game in this vein, called Legacy of Dragonholt. It's basically a narrative-driven choose your own adventure style game. I think this one definitely hits much closer to what you've described than Gloomhaven.
 
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Jay Johnson
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given the demand for it, I don't think there is a risk of totally missing out. Right now it can be tough to find because the demand rose quicker than expected, so the initial print run didn't cover all the demand. But another print run is already underway, and eventually the supply will catch up to the demand.
 
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Chris Ferejohn
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Joou wrote:
Pyrix137 wrote:
Thanks again for the replies! I never meant to imply I was interested in "uno +" however, your meaning is well taken. Is suppose I will pass at this time. Thanks for saving me money! I'll look into the other games you guys have listed here. Any of them offer a type of "choose your own adventure" feeling to them? What I would really like to find is something that has an open world feel where there is an end goal for the game, but there are choices the player can make to get there.
I just remembered another game in this vein, called Legacy of Dragonholt. It's basically a narrative-driven choose your own adventure style game. I think this one definitely hits much closer to what you've described than Gloomhaven.


Yeah, +1 for Legacy of Dragonholt. It is almost exactly a giant "choose your own adventure" with a couple pages of rules added on (e.g. If you have a certain skill, there may have additional options, etc.).
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Gert van Bruggen
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cferejohn wrote:
Joou wrote:
Pyrix137 wrote:
Thanks again for the replies! I never meant to imply I was interested in "uno +" however, your meaning is well taken. Is suppose I will pass at this time. Thanks for saving me money! I'll look into the other games you guys have listed here. Any of them offer a type of "choose your own adventure" feeling to them? What I would really like to find is something that has an open world feel where there is an end goal for the game, but there are choices the player can make to get there.
I just remembered another game in this vein, called Legacy of Dragonholt. It's basically a narrative-driven choose your own adventure style game. I think this one definitely hits much closer to what you've described than Gloomhaven.


Yeah, +1 for Legacy of Dragonholt. It is almost exactly a giant "choose your own adventure" with a couple pages of rules added on (e.g. If you have a certain skill, there may have additional options, etc.).
Dragonholt

But isn't Dragonholt not just lots of reading and choice in what direction u go in the story but les real action ?
From what i have seen is u read and get different choices then it tels u go to page XX and read and u get more choices and thats how the story goes or am i wrong.

Where Gloomhaven is less reading only the Campaign missions and more action.
 
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Carsten Neumann
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Pyrix137 wrote:
I've called around and found the game at one of my local game stores


Lucky you. Try to do that in Europe
 
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Chris Hier
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Yeah, that was the gist of the dragonholt that I saw from a couple of dice tower videos, no board or anything. Seems like it might be fun, but it's like $50 for a book to read. Unless I'm missing something.
Can anyone recommend mansions of madness for my wife and I? I checked out some videos and it looks really neat.
 
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Matthew Gardner
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Pyrix137 wrote:
Can anyone recommend mansions of madness for my wife and I? I checked out some videos and it looks really neat.

My wife and I really enjoy it. It’s a great co-op game and is easy to teach to casual gamers (we have introduced it to a couple of people who only played family games previously and they both enjoyed it). Each scenario has a story / mystery that is gradually revealed during gameplay, but be warned some scenarios are light on story and heavy on combat. The only caveat is to do your research and be aware what you get for the cost. In the app there are around a dozen scenarios available to play, but with the core box and no expansions only 4 are playable with another 2 available as DLC. The others require additional expansions. Also make sure if you buy this used, that you are looking for 2nd Edition (the first edition is not co-op and does not use the app).
 
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Cris Bohde
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mgardner0 wrote:
Pyrix137 wrote:
Can anyone recommend mansions of madness for my wife and I? I checked out some videos and it looks really neat.

My wife and I really enjoy it. It’s a great co-op game and is easy to teach to casual gamers (we have introduced it to a couple of people who only played family games previously and they both enjoyed it). Each scenario has a story / mystery that is gradually revealed during gameplay, but be warned some scenarios are light on story and heavy on combat. The only caveat is to do your research and be aware what you get for the cost. In the app there are around a dozen scenarios available to play, but with the core box and no expansions only 4 are playable with another 2 available as DLC. The others require additional expansions. Also make sure if you buy this used, that you are looking for 2nd Edition (the first edition is not co-op and does not use the app).


+1 to this, Mansions 2nd Ed is great. And for casual gamers, it plays in single scenarios, so you don't have to feel like you need to play a multi-night campaign (like most of the better Dungeon Crawlers).

And second that while Gloomhaven is a GREAT game, and my new favorite, it is a pretty large complex game. Before investing in it, I would watch review and how-to-play videos (plenty on YouTube) and possibly take a look at a few others in the genre.

I've made a few review GeekLists of games in the genre if they help:

Bohde's Dungeon Crawler Reviews - Co-op Campaign

Bohde's Dungeon Crawler Reviews - Co-op Single Scenario
 
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Byron S
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FreakGIB wrote:
Dragonholt

But isn't Dragonholt not just lots of reading and choice in what direction u go in the story but les real action ?
From what i have seen is u read and get different choices then it tells u go to page XX and read and u get more choices and that's how the story goes or am i wrong.

Yeah. Dragonholt is "cooperative" story time. There's very little game in the box, mostly a lot of reading and more reading. It's absolutely not open world, just choose your particular path between fixed points of story. The group I played with was bored silly, and never want to play it again. YMMV, of course, but don't go expecting something it's not.
 
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